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oil leak


This is a discussion on oil leak within the General Discussion forums, part of the Viper Truck SRT-10 Discussion category!
If you have been using the OEM recommended Mobil 1 0W40 syn. SN or even better the FS, your engine ...



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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2018, 08:53 AM
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If you have been using the OEM recommended Mobil 1 0W40 syn. SN or even better the FS, your engine will be very happy. The 0W flows VERY quickly at start up and it provides excellent film strength in the event of a dry start.

Read here: https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/201...-test-ranking/

Cheers!
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Old 02-05-2018, 12:10 PM
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Good stuff man thanks
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2018, 08:00 AM
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I prefer the 15/50m1 and proved it over 155,000 miles of daily driving, hundreds of track passes, and daily driving duties in Texas where weather ranges from teens to 110. The weight helps keep
The fast bleed lifters from bleeding down so fast and in turn makes a quieter slightly more powerful engine. The main Reason though is years ago I studied oil compositions and additive the packs between major brands and found the 15/50 Mobil1 had much more zinc ppm than any other weight or brand. Long term
Use in my own and customers engines show a extremely clean engine, bearings and most importantly 13 year old 100k + Mile engines are still showing crosshatch on cylinder walls!!!! Other oils leave bearing charred and razor thin, cylinder walls that look like chrome, and cam journals that are shot, as well as Dying the internal parts and casing with whatever crap dyes they add.
So basically, 10 years as an owner/racer/shop owner I've seen a lot and the common thing I see most is clean, salvageable 100k Mile plus engines thatve been run on M1 15/50 majority of their life, while other brands leave issues inside. I have several cams that are shot due to oiling as well as a piston,rod/bearing wall of Shame from other oils.
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Old 02-08-2018, 08:27 AM
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Thanks for sharing your position on the Mobil 1 15W50 product. I used it for YEARS in my sport bike engines that specified up to a 50 weight with great results. However, as oil engineering has progressed, I've had better results from oil that offers less parasitic losses AND maintains wear protection. Can you share the oils in question from your "wall of shame"?

If I had an engine lifter noise issue or wanted more consistent lift, I'd prefer to switch to slow bleed lifters rather than use a heavy oil to compensate. I'd love to see the dyno result comparing the option(s).

Beware, high Zinc levels = high wear protection is a MYTH...

Quotes from link in post #21:

"In recent years there have been entirely too many wiped cam lobes and ruined lifter failures in traditional American flat tappet engines, even though a variety of well respected brand name parts were typically used. These failures involved people using various high zinc oils, various high zinc Break-In oils, various Diesel oils, and various oils with aftermarket zinc additives added to the oil. They believed that any high zinc oil concoction is all they needed for wear protection during flat tappet engine break-in and after break-in. But, all of those failures have proven over and over again, that their belief in high zinc was nothing more than a MYTH, just as my test data has shown."

"A high level of zinc/phos is simply no guarantee of providing sufficient wear protection. And to make matters even worse, excessively high levels of zinc/phos can actually “cause” DAMAGE your engine, rather than “prevent” it. Motor Oil Industry testing has found that motor oils with more than 1,400 ppm ZDDP, INCREASED long-term wear. And it was also found that motor oils with more than 2,000 ppm ZDDP started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling (pitting and flaking). The ZDDP value is simply the average of the zinc and the phosphorus values, then rounded down to the nearest 100 ppm (parts per million)."

"From those failures where I was able to find out what specific oils were used, it turned out that those were oils I had already performed my Engineering Wear Protection Capability tests on. And all those oils had only provided poor wear protection capability, meaning that if they had looked at my test data before using those oils, they would have known in advance that their engines would be at significant risk of failure with those oils. And that is just what happened.

A number of people who have had those failures, and some had repeated failures, have contacted me, asking what they can do to prevent that failure in the future. I tell them to forget all that high zinc nonsense and look at my Wear Protection Ranking List. And to select any high ranking oil there, no matter how much zinc it has, because zinc quantity simply does NOT matter. The only thing that matters regarding wear protection, is the psi value each oil can produce in my testing. The higher the psi value, the better the wear protection. I recommend they use the SAME highly ranked oil for break-in and after break-in. It’s that simple."

Food for thought...Cheers!
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2000 ZX1270R, 200 H.P. / 111 Ft. Lbs.
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Old 02-08-2018, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho1122 View Post
Thanks for sharing your position on the Mobil 1 15W50 product. I used it for YEARS in my sport bike engines that specified up to a 50 weight with great results. However, as oil engineering has progressed, I've had better results from oil that offers less parasitic losses AND maintains wear protection. Can you share the oils in question from your "wall of shame"?

If I had an engine lifter noise issue or wanted more consistent lift, I'd prefer to switch to slow bleed lifters rather than use a heavy oil to compensate. I'd love to see the dyno result comparing the option(s).

Beware, high Zinc levels = high wear protection is a MYTH...

Quotes from link in post #21:

"In recent years there have been entirely too many wiped cam lobes and ruined lifter failures in traditional American flat tappet engines, even though a variety of well respected brand name parts were typically used. These failures involved people using various high zinc oils, various high zinc Break-In oils, various Diesel oils, and various oils with aftermarket zinc additives added to the oil. They believed that any high zinc oil concoction is all they needed for wear protection during flat tappet engine break-in and after break-in. But, all of those failures have proven over and over again, that their belief in high zinc was nothing more than a MYTH, just as my test data has shown."

"A high level of zinc/phos is simply no guarantee of providing sufficient wear protection. And to make matters even worse, excessively high levels of zinc/phos can actually “cause” DAMAGE your engine, rather than “prevent” it. Motor Oil Industry testing has found that motor oils with more than 1,400 ppm ZDDP, INCREASED long-term wear. And it was also found that motor oils with more than 2,000 ppm ZDDP started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling (pitting and flaking). The ZDDP value is simply the average of the zinc and the phosphorus values, then rounded down to the nearest 100 ppm (parts per million)."

"From those failures where I was able to find out what specific oils were used, it turned out that those were oils I had already performed my Engineering Wear Protection Capability tests on. And all those oils had only provided poor wear protection capability, meaning that if they had looked at my test data before using those oils, they would have known in advance that their engines would be at significant risk of failure with those oils. And that is just what happened.

A number of people who have had those failures, and some had repeated failures, have contacted me, asking what they can do to prevent that failure in the future. I tell them to forget all that high zinc nonsense and look at my Wear Protection Ranking List. And to select any high ranking oil there, no matter how much zinc it has, because zinc quantity simply does NOT matter. The only thing that matters regarding wear protection, is the psi value each oil can produce in my testing. The higher the psi value, the better the wear protection. I recommend they use the SAME highly ranked oil for break-in and after break-in. It’s that simple."

Food for thought...Cheers!
Long story short I've proven it with many trucks that have gone beyond 100,150,250k still on original
Bottom ends! Clean oil analysis still!
I've pulled apart engines with redline, royal
Purple , and amsoil through them and bearing wear is very evident as well as cam and cam journal wear (no cam bearings)
Piston walls are also smooth and chrome vs showing factory hatch marks at 100k+!
It's the weight and zinc packs that give it protection yessir.
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Old 02-10-2018, 06:05 PM
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I have never really thought much about it as far as what they recommend for oil weight I mean anything close to it should be fine but thats just me. I ran the 15 50 for awhile but thought it might be ok in the summer not winter
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Old 02-11-2018, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by IronAffliction View Post
I have never really thought much about it as far as what they recommend for oil weight I mean anything close to it should be fine but thats just me. I ran the 15 50 for awhile but thought it might be ok in the summer not winter

Well buddy, It's time to think about it ...Close is for Horseshoes and Hand Grenades... 15W50 causes the oil/engine temperature to RISE. Hot "flow" is too thick/slow to cool the bearings. More FOOD FOR THOUGHT....

"• Oil flow is what carries heat away from internal engine components. Those engine components are DIRECTLY oil cooled, but only INdirectly water cooled. And better flowing thinner oil will keep critical engine components cooler because it carries heat away faster than slower flowing thicker oil can. This is especially important with plain main and rod bearings, since the flow of oil through the bearings is what cools them. If you run thicker oil than needed, you will drive up engine component temps.

Here are some comparison numbers from an 830 HP road race engine on the track:

15W50 oil = 80 psi = 265* oil sump temperature

5W20 oil = 65 psi = 240* oil sump temperature

Here you can see how the thicker oil flowed more slowly through the bearings, thus getting hotter, driving up bearing temperatures and increasing sump temperatures. And the thinner oil flowed more freely and quickly through the bearings, thus cooling and lubricating them better than thicker oil, while also reducing sump temperatures.

Here’s some additional background on all this – You might be surprised by how much heat can be generated just from an oil’s internal friction, though friction may not the best term to use here. It is probably better to think of this as the heat generated due to the shearing action taking place within the oil."

So as you can see, "thicker" oil is not always best for engine performance. Generally speaking, Using a quality oil with frequent changes will promote long engine life. Even an oil ranked #170 with "MODEST" wear protection.


Cheers Guys!
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Old 02-11-2018, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho1122 View Post
Well buddy, It's time to think about it ...Close is for Horseshoes and Hand Grenades... 15W50 causes the oil/engine temperature to RISE. Hot "flow" is too thick/slow to cool the bearings. More FOOD FOR THOUGHT....

"• Oil flow is what carries heat away from internal engine components. Those engine components are DIRECTLY oil cooled, but only INdirectly water cooled. And better flowing thinner oil will keep critical engine components cooler because it carries heat away faster than slower flowing thicker oil can. This is especially important with plain main and rod bearings, since the flow of oil through the bearings is what cools them. If you run thicker oil than needed, you will drive up engine component temps.

Here are some comparison numbers from an 830 HP road race engine on the track:

15W50 oil = 80 psi = 265* oil sump temperature

5W20 oil = 65 psi = 240* oil sump temperature

Here you can see how the thicker oil flowed more slowly through the bearings, thus getting hotter, driving up bearing temperatures and increasing sump temperatures. And the thinner oil flowed more freely and quickly through the bearings, thus cooling and lubricating them better than thicker oil, while also reducing sump temperatures.

Here’s some additional background on all this – You might be surprised by how much heat can be generated just from an oil’s internal friction, though friction may not the best term to use here. It is probably better to think of this as the heat generated due to the shearing action taking place within the oil."

So as you can see, "thicker" oil is not always best for engine performance. Generally speaking, Using a quality oil with frequent changes will promote long engine life. Even an oil ranked #170 with "MODEST" wear protection.


Cheers Guys!
You're basing this on WHAT 830hp road race engine? Again, your using internet for your "theories" while I use factual, actual data from owning one through 150k of racing, racing and daily driving. I also have torn apart more engines then you could comprehend and my question every time is what oil was used! Oil temps and cooling temps were always 185* year round in Texas!! From teens to 110* ambient temps. I have hundreds of guys running 15/50 Mobil1 with great results...period. So base your oil on one guy with internet reading , or a guy who has proven their particular weight and builds these trucks and cars for a living with a decade of experience under my belt on the 8.0,8.3 and 8.4.
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Old 02-11-2018, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho1122 View Post
If you have been using the OEM recommended Mobil 1 0W40 syn. SN or even better the FS, your engine will be very happy. The 0W flows VERY quickly at start up and it provides excellent film strength in the event of a dry start.

Read here: https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/201...-test-ranking/

Cheers!
Thanks for posting this Psycho1122; There is more than "a little" information in it.


I can't completely buy into the author's absolute authority stand he has taken on several topics, but I still admire his commitment and time taken on the paper. It contains lots of great info.

Parts of it kind of reminded me of the topic of cylinder head porting where some guys insist that more and more flow always means more and more power. I just haven't seen that to be the case at all.

I'm using Mobil 1 0-30 in mine since it was rebuilt a couple of years back. I do buy into the "thin as the engine can get away with" idea for motor oil and so far, so good.

Thanks again for posting.
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