Stock flash VS VEC2 or AEM bennifets? of each run them together

SRT10VENOMOUS

SRT10VENOMOUS

1800HP Club. And climbing
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Aight im in a delema here ive talked with seveal Viper tuners who seam to have there shit in order and they all seam to say stick with the stock computer but with a flash or a tune of some sort and thats all you need...

Now as you all konw i have a VEC2 sitting here in a box with meth injection is this gonna help or hinder me..?? do i need a vec2 if i get my stock pc flashed? if they run together are they not doing the same thing? and again i have a good line on a AEM controler which i can get into verry cheep not the 3 grand they are asking for it. would i benifit in anyway adding ither of these computers to my Flashed PC ???? also i want to run NOS but not a huge shot only 100 or 125 shot dont think ill go any bigger than that with that in mind do i need to have a NOS program in the VEC or have my PC tuned to deal with that ? or will it run just fine the way it is? anyway HELP
 
Get a radical PCM tune, then use the VEC to detune it a little. Get a base tune then creep it up SLOWLY until your AF is perfect. Better to use thePCM for your main tune and just ADJUST with the VEC cuz the truck really likes the PCM, just tame it with the VEC.....get it?
 
I say keep it simple. Use the stock pcm and get it tuned right....Ive heard good things with the viper cars and the AEM stand-alone pcm, you might want to go that route with a good tuner!

-Red
 
Blakewilder said:
Get a radical PCM tune, then use the VEC to detune it a little. Get a base tune then creep it up SLOWLY until your AF is perfect. Better to use thePCM for your main tune and just ADJUST with the VEC cuz the truck really likes the PCM, just tame it with the VEC.....get it?
Click to expand...
I would exactly this and add a X Metal throttle body and inject directly into the TB.The VEC can do some of the things and the PCM tune others like fan contols etc.
 
The VEC gives YOU (Even though You are CANADIEN) a whole world of control not offered with the PCM unless you are CHRIS JENSEN or BOOMER. It will control your METH,NOS,ETC. BUT most Importantly YOU can plug it in to your laptop and do it yourself. Thats why I like it.
 
Think of it like this. A flashed PCM will give you great out of the box performance. It will also turn your fan on earlier and give you A/C cut out at WOT. A VEC will have to be tuned, but in the long run will yield better results as it will set up for your truck and altitude. Plus it can control your meth. Know what I know now I would throw on a VEC2. If you can get the PCM flashed for everything but the timing. The AEM might be overkill unless you plan on doing more modding down the line.

Smoke
 
Do you have a QC or RC?

The QC would definitely benefit more than the RC from having both the B&G (boomer) flash and the VEC....due to shift firmness and RPM limiter raised (Vec cant do that alone. However, even with the RC you can tweak your Flash tune with the VEC to get even more out of your truck and ensure its safety.

I would at least keep the VEC and add your Methanol injection. It will help with detonation which you could encounter with your NOS....another safety factor. The flash will adjust your fan which the VEC doesnt modify.

Im sure if I had quarter mile times with the VEC and flash together compared to the VEC or to the Flash, they would be better than with flash or vec alone. Im betting that both Boomer and Sean Roe would agree on this topic. It is all a matter of cost for you at this point to add a flash.

My dynos with the VEC + Flash were better than VEC alone or Flash alone. Sean Roe has them on file. He probably would send them if you ask.

Flash dynod better than stock controller.
VEC dynod better than stock controller.
VEC and Flash together produced the biggest gains for my truck.
 
What kinda gains did u get with both?


Bone said:
Do you have a QC or RC?

The QC would definitely benefit more than the RC from having both the B&G (boomer) flash and the VEC....due to shift firmness and RPM limiter raised (Vec cant do that alone. However, even with the RC you can tweak your Flash tune with the VEC to get even more out of your truck and ensure its safety.

I would at least keep the VEC and add your Methanol injection. It will help with detonation which you could encounter with your NOS....another safety factor. The flash will adjust your fan which the VEC doesnt modify.

Im sure if I had quarter mile times with the VEC and flash together compared to the VEC or to the Flash, they would be better than with flash or vec alone. Im betting that both Boomer and Sean Roe would agree on this topic. It is all a matter of cost for you at this point to add a flash.

My dynos with the VEC + Flash were better than VEC alone or Flash alone. Sean Roe has them on file. He probably would send them if you ask.

Flash dynod better than stock controller.
VEC dynod better than stock controller.
VEC and Flash together produced the biggest gains for my truck.
Click to expand...
 
The AEM is the BEST way to go , the most tuneablilty period.

the Vec II is your second and most affordable bet, good tuning capabilitys.

I think a flash is toilet trash, but thats me, you cant just kick in a tune on a pcm and it be good for canada's altitude and also be gooe for Fla. nd the flash is universal. The best thing you can do with a flash is change shift points(which is nogood for u) and change when the fan comes on.

Remember its my opinion , and most dont agree with me:D but if a flash is so good then why doesnt everyone with a viper auto do it?
 
I'm with Stinker on this.....I dont see how you can run the same tune year around or rely on a tune that "should work" for you truck.

There have been hundreds of "L" owners rashing their engines after purchasing a tune remotely.

I did my summer dyno tune today and had to make significant changes over my winter tune.

I have ran Vec2 tunes that were set up for similar modds that I had and were off enough that I wouldnt want to run them. Was able to gain significant HP and better A/F ratios with my own tune.
 
mmmmtorque said:
I'm with Stinker on this.....I dont see how you can run the same tune year around or rely on a tune that "should work" for you truck. QUOTE]

There is so much misinformation out there. You know how your own truck is good all year round at all elevations etc? Well, the flash works the same way in that is simply is a more aggressive tune across the board but retains the adaptive tuning of the stock pcm.

A Vec is intercepting the stock signal and altering it. You need to hack in the harness and all injectors. I've never been a big fan.

The AEM or Motec is the most advanced solution but has its own drawbacks specfically cost, throwing codes etc...
Click to expand...
 
womsterr said:
mmmmtorque said:
I'm with Stinker on this.....I dont see how you can run the same tune year around or rely on a tune that "should work" for you truck. QUOTE]

There is so much misinformation out there. You know how your own truck is good all year round at all elevations etc? Well, the flash works the same way in that is simply is a more aggressive tune across the board but retains the adaptive tuning of the stock pcm.

A Vec is intercepting the stock signal and altering it. You need to hack in the harness and all injectors. I've never been a big fan.

The AEM or Motec is the most advanced solution but has its own drawbacks specfically cost, throwing codes etc...
Click to expand...


People are too afraid of electronics...they will throw in a new cam, heads, intake,exhaust, etc...but cut a wire ? hell no! :afraid:

If its true adaptive tuning then after a few thousand miles your flash tune would be gone.

Vec only kicks in at open loop, so most of the time the PCM is still in control.
Click to expand...
 
If You decide to use the AEM or Motec make sure you have a tuner install the wiring harness....they should also be very familiar with the viper motor and all it's issues.
 
mmmmtorque said:
womsterr said:
People are too afraid of electronics...they will throw in a new cam, heads, intake,exhaust, etc...but cut a wire ? hell no! :afraid:

If its true adaptive tuning then after a few thousand miles your flash tune would be gone.

Vec only kicks in at open loop, so most of the time the PCM is still in control.
Click to expand...
the "flash" on a pcm is done for open & closed loop mode, and in both modes the computer still has an adaptive learning curve.
the L owners that had problems are due to the law of averages, there are so many friggin so called L tuners and 90% of them are hacks. the market can afford that many as to the number of Furds out there. the Viper/srt communuity is small enough that the mis-information is as widespread-it is there non-the less.
a flash is still the best bang for the buck, and it should be done by everyone looking for the most from there truck.
the stock flash is what it is, as Dodge has to safegaurd the vehicle against idiots who run 87 octane gas & drag race from stop light to stop light & do rev limiter burnouts in the Wal-mart parking lot. your truck has a warranty, the put a program in place that will protect thier investment.
what a good flash does, is make the truck perform as good in reality as it does on the engineers blueprints.
Click to expand...
 
BOOMER said:
mmmmtorque said:
the "flash" on a pcm is done for open & closed loop mode, and in both modes the computer still has an adaptive learning curve.
the L owners that had problems are due to the law of averages, there are so many friggin so called L tuners and 90% of them are hacks. the market can afford that many as to the number of Furds out there. the Viper/srt communuity is small enough that the mis-information is as widespread-it is there non-the less.
a flash is still the best bang for the buck, and it should be done by everyone looking for the most from there truck.
the stock flash is what it is, as Dodge has to safegaurd the vehicle against idiots who run 87 octane gas & drag race from stop light to stop light & do rev limiter burnouts in the Wal-mart parking lot. your truck has a warranty, the put a program in place that will protect thier investment.
what a good flash does, is make the truck perform as good in reality as it does on the engineers blueprints.
Click to expand...

I am didnt mean to imply that all flash upgrades are bad. Just that people should be careful and would recommend that they test their flash upgrades with their vehicle on a dyno....Then coordinate with their flash tuner for any "tweaks" necessary. Flash upgrades are less intrusive and a little safer for the average person than a Vec2 or AEM.
Click to expand...
 
There is so much misinformation out there. You know how your own truck is good all year round at all elevations etc? Well, the flash works the same way in that is simply is a more aggressive tune across the board but retains the adaptive tuning of the stock pcm.
Click to expand...
The VEC, as I understand it, is additive to the PCM, whether it is Stock or Boomer's. You can add or subtract timing and fuel values to the PCM but does not take over for the PCM. For instance, I had to completely retune my VEC program by adding/subtracting Boomer's flash variables (ie. could not use my prior VEC tune for the stock PCM on Boomer's flash).

mmmmtorque said:
I'm with Stinker on this.....I dont see how you can run the same tune year around or rely on a tune that "should work" for you truck.
Click to expand...

My Winter/Spring tune has been working for me and I have dyno'd it in Hot summer Ga. Results still gave me good numbers and an A/F ratio stable in the 12.1 -12.8 range, just like it did in the Winter/Spring time. Not doubting your words, but mine has been solid so far and with dynos to back it up.

If I was to do it all over again, I would get both Boomer's and the VEC.:star:
 
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See, I'm currently thinking Boomers flash now, then add the AEM, then add heads, valvetrain, cam and a good tune. Maybe Roe will be out with a top mount system and an intercooler option by then :dontknow:
 
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