Headers

Discussion in 'Performance Mods' started by Ghost05, Oct 25, 2018.

  1. sleepersrt10

    sleepersrt10 Member Supporting Member

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    Be sure to ceramic coat whichever headers you decide to go with. Makes a tremendous under-hood temperature difference.
     
  2. SRT2SLOW

    SRT2SLOW Active Member Supporting Member

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    Yes sir. 540hp with 577lbs of tq na . But im swapping it out because im going back to a supercharger.
     
  3. rottenronnie

    rottenronnie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Like he said- ^^^^^

    HUGE difference in heat reduction.
    Much easier on parts (like wiring harnesses and such).
     
  4. Kopack_05

    Kopack_05 Full Access Member

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    To Phsycos question
    I can appreciate your statement. Do you have dyno proven or trap speed differences to show the power change? :)

    Thought I would chime in, with my header experience (billy boat full exhaust, no cats).
    When the truck was stock it ran a consistent 13.6 on 2 different nights. I installed the header system and then ran 14.2s on 2 different nights. I then added a throttle body and aftermarket tune and immediately ran 13.2s consistently.
    Not sure this answers any questions other than adding bolt on parts without modding your tune could result in a slower vehicle.

    If you had asked me after installing the headers, if there was any power gain? I would have said hell yeah!! but it did not translate to the track.
     
  5. Psycho1122

    Psycho1122 Full Access Member

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    Great Feedback:rock: I does show that noise can be a placebo effect. Like a Hardly Ableson, they have a unique way of converting fuel into noise without the side effect of acceleration..:D ;)

    I had a similar experience, just WITHOUT headers. When I ran my RC 100% stock with ONLY a K&N drop in filter, It ran 13.3 @ 106 mph. Keep in mind that we (Arizona) typically do NOT have very good DA. It is dry, however, not oxygen rich (no trees), never really above 30.00 in hg. and our strip is around 1,200 above sea level.
    AFTER I had my full B&B manifold back exhaust installed, I then dropped in my 91 octane "canned" tune, there was no "seat of the pants" difference. 1/4 mile runs showed .2 -.3 slower with a slight loss of trap speed (1-2 mph.) 13.5's @ 104-105 mph.
    I installed an AEM wideband from JTSVP along with the B&B exhaust. This revealed how rich the tune was. To Torrie's credit....SAFE rich. Above 5000 rpm it was UNDER 11:1 even with the free flowing new exhaust. After adding the all important Monster RX catch can.. (this allows you to safely LEAN out your tune at high RPM and not risk detonation from hot oil fumes in your intake) and then running three test sessions (on road / 74* / 4th gear / 190* op. temp.) logging A/F and conditions, Torrie developed a custom map based off my feedback.
    Talk about a transformation! More power everywhere at WOT. With the B&B, power under peak is most impressive. However, the top end of each gear has the punch to go with it. Now it runs in the sweet spot of 12.7-12.8:1 above 4,000 - 5,600 rpm.
    My second session at the track showed positive gains. With stock tires, 60 ft. never went below 1.9's, however, E.T dropped to 13.0's - 13.2's and trap speed up to 107mph. Actually, 60 ft. times were a bit more difficult to keep as low as I was getting stock due to the improved torque at low rpm.
    Lastly, I added some simple, proven mods.... BBK TB, UD pulley and indexing a fresh set of plugs. Torrie added a "touch" of advance to the maps timing and on my last track test session showed an impressive dip into the 12's (12.90's) with trap speeds sneaking up on mid 108's.
    Note the engine operating temperature staying in the 190 range. This retains the important chamber heat and the "just rich enough" map with the stock cold air feed allows the charge to stay cool and happy ;)
    Covert these #s to sea level and you have some impressive results! Enough to humble my buddy with his 2017 392 Scat Pack Charger :D

    These results showed me how well the stock manifolds are. It also shows how your tune is more important than the mods as a whole. I never really would consider changing to headers for all the complications that can go with them. B&B claims that their headers will add another 15 H.P. to the full manifold back system?!? I cannot say it would be worth the cost and headache. I'd consider headers if you were going with heads, cam etc. Then I could see headers adding to "the combination". I'd rather acid etch and Jet Hot coat the stock manifolds instead. Pick up about 15% in volume and retain even more heat within the cast iron logs. :burnout:
     
  6. Ghost05

    Ghost05 Full Access Member

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    Is there someone or somewhere y'all recommend about sending the manafolds to for that type of process?
     
  7. 6speedquadcab

    6speedquadcab NorCal SF Bay Area Supporting Member

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    The fact Psycho1122 went through “complications and headachesâ€￾ installing headers is more informative on his competency than his long winded dissertation.

    With that said, E (SRT2SLOW) knows a place here in Cali that can do it. Shoot him a PM.
     
  8. Psycho1122

    Psycho1122 Full Access Member

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    :rolleyes:

    The Fact's on headers represent themselves Mr. 5 1/2 speed...
    Pro's and con's with headers have been well documented here and elsewhere long before you showed up. Competent research shows headers on these engines will provide benefits that "justify the cost" when part of a higher than stock VE and BMEP engine package (heads/head-work, cam, increased compression & RPM, Etc.).
    - rottenronnie's threads and posts are a great example. :rock:

    Since "Data" and "comparisons" in real world conditions are "long winded", I will start utilizing a variety of Acronym's to help with your ADHD. I also can discern that your issue is a PBKAC.:pcguru: :D

    To assist Ghost05, I have information on the Acid Etching process. Just PM me and I can e-mail it to you. Also, after doing the etching process, you can have them coated here...
    https://www.jet-hot.com/coatings/

    Cheers! ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018
  9. rottenronnie

    rottenronnie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Hello Fellas-
    As our exhaust manifolds seem to suffer from some core-shift, and an acid process can't really see where it is going, grab a reasonably robust hand held grinder and cutting stones and open them up to gasket size in the areas that need it. That is the only way to be able to "do it right". Pay attention as some of the ports are rather thin on one side and thicker on the other.

    You won't get a scavenging effect with manifolds like you get with headers: An exhaust pulse leaves the port, travels down the pipe, hits the much larger collector area then (oddly) reflects a sound-wave backwards toward the engine. IF the primary pipe diameter, and length is correct, it will block some of the intake charge from leaving the cylinder.

    This phenomenon occurs during the overlap cycle and Engineers call this "Rarefaction". This is a main function of a well-designed header...Ever notice the way the pipes merge in the collector and (some) manufacturers try to pair the cylinders side-by-side to assist one another when scavenging, and additional tricks are used to smooth the flow? Considerable thought can go into header design.

    Now that overlap "numbers" are way down compared to older engines with older cam grinds, headers seem to have less affect on power than they used to in years gone by.

    Arguably, induction systems upstream of the heads, cylinder head design, oem exhaust systems and such are SO much better than they used to be and headers aren't as needed.

    In my own engine (where virtually everything has been modified or tweaked), the header purchase was an expensive purchase for the performance gained. Are headers better for performance than cast iron manifolds? Sure.

    Saturday morning ramblings...
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018
  10. 6speedquadcab

    6speedquadcab NorCal SF Bay Area Supporting Member

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    Again with the long winded rant and didn’t even pick up the fact I’m clowning on his headaches more like labor pains installing headers on a truck with a big ass engine bay. Man the fuck up. You time taken on this long reply could of been put to better use like paying close attention Nancyboy1122.
     
  11. THEWELSHM

    THEWELSHM Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I'm assuming you had your feelings hurt?....:D facts tend to do that, to some, usually the left :D

    thewelshm
     
  12. 6speedquadcab

    6speedquadcab NorCal SF Bay Area Supporting Member

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    I’m really sore English. :D
     
  13. Psycho1122

    Psycho1122 Full Access Member

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    Definitely enjoy this "long winded" contribution to the discussion! ;)
    Please do not mistake my claim that headers are not a performance gain. If I were to go through the process of installing them, I'd want them to work with a set up similar to yours with heads / head-work and a cam to match. Coating and heat shielding would be a must. A melted harness or two would be a drag. Stock? Dodge did not put a log on the engine to choke it up. Interesting how how Belanger manufactures these blowers and how the design is our manifolds in reverse. So, with exhaust pulses aside (which is still a significant consideration), I doubt flow is an issue.
    [​IMG]

    If I end up keeping the truck, I'd definitely gasket match while I had the set in my hands before coating. If I were to crack into the engine at all, I'd opt for a valve train upgrade with hardened rods, fresh springs, slow bleed roller lifters and a thinner head gasket set. Reliable, consistent breathing and a C/R bump.
    Right now, it runs great and passes emissions easily, simple fun :rock:

    Cheers!
     
  14. ViperPete

    ViperPete Full Access Member

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  15. 6speedquadcab

    6speedquadcab NorCal SF Bay Area Supporting Member

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  16. rottenronnie

    rottenronnie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Radical design for sure!
    Innovation at it's finest.

    Interesting comment regarding 4-valves requiring less camshaft than 2. There's that smaller=higher velocity thing again coupled with more surface area using (2) valves for more throughput (a win-win).

    It looks like we are going to get the internal combustion engines close to perfected just in time for electric motors to take over. Or zero-point energy, or whatever is coming.

    Cheers.