Need some advice: Lifter Noise on startup, goes away once oil reaches 180F

cwells777

cwells777

Full Access Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2016
Messages
70
Reaction score
0
Location
New Jersey
Hi All,

After reading countless threads previously posted about lifter noise, I haven't seen any posts about lifter noise disappearing once the oil is warmed up. I've also seen plenty of different oil recommendations to quiet the noise from the regular 0W-40, usually 15W-50 is mentioned. However, I've also seen some opinions against using it as well. While I'm comfortable doing normal maintenance on the truck, I'm hesitant on pulling off the valve covers for closer inspection.

Pretty much wanted to start this thread to get some answers from you pros specifically related to my current headache. Greatly appreciate any input!

Truck Details:
  • 2005 RC with 98,600 miles, stock w/ intake. Bought it with 62K
  • Daily driven about 20 miles. Never taken on a track but spiritedly driven. (Calmly driven as of now)
  • Oil changed every 3-5K with M1 0W-40, usually loses about 1qt every 1k miles, so is topped off regularly
  • Oil pressure starts off ~75, Once warm goes to 50-75 while driving, idle sits around 25.

Problem:
  • 1st started noticing the noise right before last oil change, put 1k miles on since that oil change.
  • After oil change, there was no difference made in noise. Still used 0W-40 oil
  • Singular tapping noise comes from the drive side valves after cold start, same consistent tapping sound even through acceleration. Completely quiet after oil temp reaches 180F during idle & accelerating.
  • Added 1qt of Lucas pure synthetic oil stabilizer, no change noticed
Videos of noise:
  • Cold Start-
  • Exhaust after warmed up-
I know these engines normally sound like a mariachi band, but I know how she sounds normally and this was a very new sound.

Questions:
  • How concerned do I need to be with this lifter tap?
  • Should I change to a thicker oil? If so what brand, weight & viscosity has truly worked well?
  • I was talking with someone recently who said when it fails it'll pretty much spell the end of the engine. He owns a shop & said to do the lifters will be a couple grand as he would want to do new springs & push rods. Does that sound about right or should I expect a bigger bill?
  • If I do go & replace the lifters, springs, & push rods is there anything else that really should be inspected/replaced while its opened up? Again not a track car, not looking to add a supercharger or anything.
  • How hard is the lifters to change, is this something that can be done with some knowledgeable friends, time & patience or best left to pros?
Thanks again, really appreciate any thoughts on this issue!
 
Last edited:
Is it a tick or a tap?
Is the idle smooth (out the back) or is there a slight single cylinder misfire sound to it?
Bullet point 3 is a very broad-based statement bordering on fear-mongering. What exactly is supposed "to fail"?: A lifter? The camshaft? A rocker arm? What spells the end of the engine? For example, it sure isn't a ticking lifter that would.

The lifters are under the heads and to change the lifters properly and have a look around, pull the heads.

It is not difficult but somewhat time consuming.
The Intake manifold itself takes a while to remove.

Isolate which one is making the noise using a stethoscope (or a piece of wood) or find the general area where it is the loudest.
Pull the valve cover when you find out which one (or area) makes the loudest noise.
Start it and when it's idling (a bit messy), push down on the pushrod side of the rocker with something like the rubber end of a hammer handle to see if you can make the sound change.
Does it go away or does it make the sound louder?

I sure wouldn't be panicked (at all).

The lifters need the 0-X weight oil to function properly.
 
Sorry, I just re-read your post, you said it was a TAP.
That would suggest larger clearance (for some reason) than a "tick".
Either the lifter has some junk it and/or needs replacing OR the camshaft lobe is worn for some reason OR you have a rocker nut that has backed off OR the rocker ball is worn. A broken valve spring would cause a misfire, period.
 
Pushrods don't "just bend" between oil changes.
IF someone missed a full-throttle shift and the revs went semi-ballistic, the factory pushrods will/can bend as a fail safe. That doesn't sound like the issue here.

When it's idling with the cover off, see if the noisy one has less lift at the valve than the others.

The lifters set in holsters to prevent the lifter's wheel from turning in the bore (to something other than square on the cam lobe) and wiping out the camshaft.

PS I STILL can't edit my posts so that's why the info is broken up.
 
Once full operating temp has been reached, everything in the valvetrain expands to the point that the clearance creating the tap is taken up and the sound goes away. Oil pressure also rises with r.p.m/acceleration, to a point, and cushions the tapping.
 
rottenronnie said:
Is it a tick or a tap?
Is the idle smooth (out the back) or is there a slight single cylinder misfire sound to it?
Bullet point 3 is a very broad-based statement bordering on fear-mongering. What exactly is supposed "to fail"?: A lifter? The camshaft? A rocker arm? What spells the end of the engine? For example, it sure isn't a ticking lifter that would.

The lifters are under the heads and to change the lifters properly and have a look around, pull the heads.

It is not difficult but somewhat time consuming.
The Intake manifold itself takes a while to remove.

Isolate which one is making the noise using a stethoscope (or a piece of wood) or find the general area where it is the loudest.
Pull the valve cover when you find out which one (or area) makes the loudest noise.
Start it and when it's idling (a bit messy), push down on the pushrod side of the rocker with something like the rubber end of a hammer handle to see if you can make the sound change.
Does it go away or does it make the sound louder?

I sure wouldn't be panicked (at all).

The lifters need the 0-X weight oil to function properly.
Click to expand...


TBH it could be a tick if it makes more sense instead of a tap, the idle has been pretty smooth but I do believe I might have heard something earlier today for the 1st time i've noticed that could be a slight single cylinder misfire.
I'll actually take a video tomorrow to see how well I can capture the sounds and will post.

Yeah, bullet 3 did feel bordering on fear-mongering... pretty much said that when the lifter fails it could drop the head or something along those lines, doing major damage. Since they guy owns a well reviewed shop it had me worried, but that's why I wanted to verify with you guys.

I have to replace my fiance's rear wheel bearing & hub assemblies on her Subaru this weekend.
If im lucky enough to have an easy go of removing them I should be able to investigate my problem Saturday night & Sunday and post an update.
 
rottenronnie said:
Pushrods don't "just bend" between oil changes.
IF someone missed a full-throttle shift and the revs went semi-ballistic, the factory pushrods will/can bend as a fail safe. That doesn't sound like the issue here.

When it's idling with the cover off, see if the noisy one has less lift at the valve than the others.

The lifters set in holsters to prevent the lifter's wheel from turning in the bore (to something other than square on the cam lobe) and wiping out the camshaft.

PS I STILL can't edit my posts so that's why the info is broken up.
Click to expand...

Certainly agree and to clarify I wasn't saying the pushrods bend between oil changes if thats how it sounded.. also don't hear any knocking or banging. I've also seen that Scotty had a video that showed him pushing on the rods (when its off) and if it plunges down then the lifters are bad..

No worries on the split up replies, really appreciate you sharing your thoughts on this!
 
It is good to hear you have stuck with the EXCELLENT choice of the M1 0W-40 oil in your engine. When it comes to protection, it is #6 of all available oils.

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

Ronnie has made some great statements in this thread. You just may be experiencing mileage related wear in the valve-train. (Hopefully, you have not over-reved the engine)
The upside is you are aware and can do a preventative inspection. In addition to that, your engine could benefit from more overall power with a slow bleed lifter, beefier push rods, fresh springs and thinner head gaskets if you end up pulling the heads. At the same time you could do a simple "port match" especially on the exhaust manifolds before you re-assemble. It would also be easier to "Index" all spark plugs with the heads off, the more cylinders (especially V10's and 12's), the higher the % of power gain from doing so. So really, what is a 2% gain in a typical Viper Engine?!?! ;)

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2000/07/indexplugs/

Good Luck, Cheers!
 
Psycho1122 said:
It is good to hear you have stuck with the EXCELLENT choice of the M1 0W-40 oil in your engine. When it comes to protection, it is #6 of all available oils.

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

Ronnie has made some great statements in this thread. You just may be experiencing mileage related wear in the valve-train. (Hopefully, you have not over-reved the engine)
The upside is you are aware and can do a preventative inspection. In addition to that, your engine could benefit from more overall power with a slow bleed lifter, beefier push rods, fresh springs and thinner head gaskets if you end up pulling the heads. At the same time you could do a simple "port match" especially on the exhaust manifolds before you re-assemble. It would also be easier to "Index" all spark plugs with the heads off, the more cylinders (especially V10's and 12's), the higher the % of power gain from doing so. So really, what is a 2% gain in a typical Viper Engine?!?! ;)

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2000/07/indexplugs/

Good Luck, Cheers!
Click to expand...

Thanks for chiming in on this!

I've read that oil post as well, not in great detail as it's a massive amount of info but very useful!

Like I said I've seen posts recommending other oils but it's conflicting info and always stuck with the manufacturers reco.

Just wondering what you mean by a "simple port match", by all rights nothing is ever simple lol.

Will be posting the sound videos today also.
 
Videos of noise are up:
  • Cold Start-
  • Exhaust after warmed up-
Thought I heard a different noise from the exhaust yesterday but didn't record, seems normal today.
 
Do a quick check of the exhaust manifolds heat shields to make sure there not loose... it was a common problem and sounded like a squeaky ticking lifter sound .... at least on mine years ago .. just a thought .
 
VIPR PWR said:
Do a quick check of the exhaust manifolds heat shields to make sure there not loose... it was a common problem and sounded like a squeaky ticking lifter sound .... at least on mine years ago .. just a thought .
Click to expand...

Thanks man, can confirm that the one is loose but when it's held back the noise is still there under the valve covers. Perhaps another shield or hanger is rattling that tricked my hearing yesterday with the exhaust since if there was a slight misfire I should hear it regularly.
 
cwells777 said:
Thanks man, can confirm that the one is loose but when it's held back the noise is still there under the valve covers. Perhaps another shield or hanger is rattling that tricked my hearing yesterday with the exhaust since if there was a slight misfire I should hear it regularly.
Click to expand...
of
Check for a code for misfire ... key on key off key on key off key on ,and read the dash codes ... unless you have a SCT use that .. might help if misfire code is triggered ...
 
VIPR PWR said:
of
Check for a code for misfire ... key on key off key on key off key on ,and read the dash codes ... unless you have a SCT use that .. might help if misfire code is triggered ...
Click to expand...

Checked for codes, no codes were displayed, only said "done" after cycling the key
 
cwells777 said:
Checked for codes, no codes were displayed, only said "done" after cycling the key
Click to expand...
That’s a good sign then ... maybe no misfire or not bad enough to throw a code .. at least you have covered a few simple things before you end up taking motor parts off .... maybe someone else will chime in with other things to check
 
Yes you do need to be concerned about lifter taping and here's why. The camshaft is nodular iron with what appears to be a chrome or nickel coating on the lobes Liter tapping will take out the lobes. I had to replace a cam last year because of some inferior lifters that were installed when the motor was rebuilt. When you replace lifters be sure you use a Delphi lifter There is a lot of chinese and mexico junk floating around and its a very big job to pull the heads to replace them. The stock camshaft is dealer only and it is over 1000 dollars. Melling and Elgin rebox Delphi lifters and that's the only 2 sources I use. Watch your lifter retainers too. They are plastic and break easily. I would also pull the pan and check for a sump screen leak where it connects to the oil pump It could be pushing air into the lifters if leaking. I think I would check that first and see if it cures your issue before pulling the heads
 
I had a similar noise, took the oil filler cap off, it was a lot louder with filler cap off. Put my listening device...a stethoscope with a metal tube inserted on the end...into the filler and touching the metal oil splash guard that is right in the filler hole, and the tapping noise was actually the rocker tapping the splash shield. You could also feel the sheild getting tapped. Used a little J-hook piece of steel to get under the shield and pull up on it just a little, problem solved.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Support Us

Become A Supporting Member Today!

Click Here For Details

Random Media

His & Hers 2013
Almost Done
image
CHUB WORKING IT OUT
Back
Top