Global Warming Thread

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, and Debates' started by TREKER, Oct 13, 2009.

  1. Prof

    Prof New Member Supporting Member

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    Did you read the forward...it noted that the short term cooling referenced was adding to the issue of global climate change...the graph in the video I provided demonstrated the levels of CO2 over 400,000 years. Note the current levels of CO2 currently in the air...

    Tim, what would you consider proof? I provided photographic, temperature and CO2 levels over hundreds of centuries...I presume if Obama said that Global Warming was a sham, you would become a tree hugger???
     
  2. Blacksnake

    Blacksnake Full Access Member

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    I look at the overall profits of the oil companies and that's what counts. Record profits on record prices. They always blame it on supply and demand, or we have refineries that aren't fully functional. Wouldn't you think that if you cant fix your shit in a timely matter that maybe your profits as a company would dip a little rather than making more money than any other company has in history.
     
  3. ARRESTmeRed04

    ARRESTmeRed04 Active Member Supporting Member

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    i was just pointing out that they flip out if the temp. isn't the same every day, and how they think "man" caused it. Maybe they should look at that big ass orange ball in the sky...no way that could make ice melt. in fact our C02 out put is so high that we are even melting the ice caps on mars:eek:
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html
     
  4. Scrambler1

    Scrambler1 Full Access Member

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    According to one of the graphs the amount of CO2 is lead by an increase in temperature, then a decrease in temperature comes before the decrease of CO2. So what makes temperature decline while CO2 levels are at their peak? Roy the earth moves in cycles, all that you've shown proves that to be true, not that people are causing it.

    All of this climate change crap is a hypothesis, theory at best. The earth moves in cycles, that can't be explained. There are almost countless things involved in this cycle CO2 levels, water vapor, ocean currents, ocean salinity, magnetic field of the earth, solar flares etc. So if we influence only one factor how much influence do we really have? And how much of the total CO2 in the atmosphere has anything to do with us?
     
  5. Black1

    Black1 Full Access Member

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    To throw your age-old game plan back in your face..... You cloud you own hypothesis with senseless bullshit, Roy.... ;)

    The issue is... This whole thing is DEBATABLE. Scientists (as a whole) are NOT of the same mind on this issue. Some say it is a natural phenomina and the issue (apart from the CO2 we produce) has nothing to do with the end result (of the world's climate changing). Meaning, it would have changed, irreparably anyway just as a cyclical cooling-warming cycle. Some think, like your sources, that humans have worsened the problem and, somehow, it can be repaired and REVERSED to avoid disaster. :dontknow:

    Now.... to further fuck-up the issue... there is a HUGE industry, ripe for the picking, with "Green" alternatives. I agree, recycling, alternative energy, and general5 conservation are good ideas... but, to bill them in FEAR as saying the WORLD WILL END if we don't adopt these new (EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE, GOVERNMENT SPONSORED) processes NOW, or face imminent disaster, is comical at best, IMO. :dontknow: The left is pushing these issues because there is industry filling their pockets with money. Just as current "dirty" industry is funding the right side of the isle. :mad: It's all about the MONEY.... It all goes back to our conversation on Human Nature (in today's world). There will always be someone in the possession to capitalize on the ales of Man. These people are modern day Snake-Oil salesmen. Both side of the isle have hands in everyone's pockets.
     
  6. Django

    Django New Member Supporting Member

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    Only proof is proof...........

    That isn't proof that man did it..........

    A good lawyer could prove that Obama is an albino if he wanted to......

    Facts are curious things............

    Your facts are not my facts...... It's all bullshit.

    D
     
  7. Prof

    Prof New Member Supporting Member

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  8. WizzySRT10

    WizzySRT10 Full Access Member

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    Global Warming is pure utter shit! Last winter and this summer was the coldest we've had in along time. Barley broke 100 degrees but maybe 5 times this summer, record rain fall. Global Warming was invented by Gore and not proven
     
  9. Prof

    Prof New Member Supporting Member

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    Global warming is not measured in seasons. It is the trend over hundreds and thousands, and even hundreds of thousands of years that is the issue. Changes in seasonal or day to day temperatures are of no consequence when speaking of global geological trends.

    Did you even look at the Video I posted above?

    There is no scientific doubt that global warming is happening Wizzy, the causes and need/or lack of need for action is what is being debated.
     
  10. WizzySRT10

    WizzySRT10 Full Access Member

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    So why did NASA suit Gore over Global Warming. It hasn't be proven alot of scientists have jumped on the Al Gore bandwagon.
     
  11. WizzySRT10

    WizzySRT10 Full Access Member

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    Roy so do you think that Cap and Trade is gonna help "Global Warming"? Do you agree or disagree with it?
     
  12. Prof

    Prof New Member Supporting Member

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    I do think that cap and trade is a step in the right direction in reducing pollution. European emissions dropped by nearly 3% in 2008. The largest cause of a reduction in emissions in the European Union in 2008 was attributable to the cap and trade system — because it had encouraged greater use of gas in power generation rather than dirtier fuels like coal. Three percent in a year is a huge reduction.

    On the economic front the issues are different. So when looking at cap and trade we have to measure the environmental success against the economic cost to the economy.

    Here is an article that establishes the data I mentioned above:

    http://greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/2...opean-cap-and-trade-system-reduced-emissions/
     
  13. Silverback

    Silverback New Member Supporting Member

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    "....dirtier fuels like coal." ? Is it the coal, or is it older power generating plants that are not as clean as some of the newer ones?

    And when referring to "gas", what form are you referring to there?
     
  14. Prof

    Prof New Member Supporting Member

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    Could very well be a plant issue...the article only attributes the reduction to cap and trade...

    I am pretty sure the gas that is referred to is natural gas...it is a common substitute for coal that allows for most of the same equipment to be used that is used in coal fired plants.

    The success is documented and was a large part of the reason the US adopted the cap and trade approach.

    What is not documented is the economic impact...I think that data has yet to be fully digested...it is possible that the European Union will determine that the economic impact is too expensive...or maybe it isn't, but that shoe has yet to drop.
     
  15. Scrambler1

    Scrambler1 Full Access Member

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    China already dropped cap and trade once because the impact on their GDP was too great. Why would anyone think that our result would be any different.

    Here's how I look at it. Man made climate change is barely a theory, certainly not something that can be proven scientifically. There are so many variables beyond our control that saying that we are causing it because we can effect one factor is a huge stretch. It has also become a political hot button and the legitimacy of anything in that category has to be questioned.

    The urgency of any environmental issues is unlikely. Whether or not we have anything to do with it is in question. Whether or not a change in behavior will change the outcome is certainly in question. What is not in question is that cap and trade is nothing more than a tax and it is an economy killer. If the average american can barely afford health care then how are they going to be able to afford the high priced green technology? Buy a $30k miniature car that is only useful to get to work and back? Refit their house with the latest in appliances to be allowed by the government to sell it? Give me a break!

    Do what we say or we'll tax you into submission is not the American way pure and simple. Following in the footsteps of the EU is not something I have any interest in... that's why I live here.
     
  16. Begood

    Begood Full Access Member

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    Here is some global warming for ya, our average high at this time of year is 62 degrees. Guess what our high temp is going to be today? 45 degrees. We have been in the fkn 40s all fkn week. Global warming my ass.:mad:

    Bill.
     
  17. Prof

    Prof New Member Supporting Member

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    Joe you just keep saying things that are wrong. China has not dropped cap and trade as a matter of fact there is evidence that China might announce a national voluntary program in December of this year.

    (http://www.triplepundit.com/2009/10/will-china-have-cap-and-trade-before-the-us/)

    The only part of your post that I agree with is the issue of urgency...I have no idea what the downside of pollution is, and I have no idea what kind of technological advances are in the future to help us handle the problem.

    Your comment about "barely a theory"...did you watch the TED video...if so what about the CO2 levels that co-inside with industrialization? That is 400,000 years of data...with a shocking CO2 level increasing as industrialization has happened. Maybe be not total proof, but certainly something that should arouse our interest.

    Or, maybe there are some here that believe that the earth is really only five thousand years old and that 400,000 years of data is just being manufactured to make a point...? I certainly hope not, but I have been wrong before.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2009
  18. Prof

    Prof New Member Supporting Member

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    Post 49...

    It has been cold as hell here too.

    And the appropriate phrase is really global climate change not global warming (but warming is the case) and the issue is what and when do we do anything or do we just hope for a natural occuring solution.
     
  19. TREKER

    TREKER Full Access Member

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    I remember back in the early 90's when all the global warming stuff was starting to flair up. Rush had his TV show back then. He sent cameras out into NYC to talk to people that winter. That winter in NY happened to be the coldest in recorded history. That was just over fifteen years ago and we have been addressing global warming as an issue even back then. How are things worse now? The planet goes through much worse than anything we can EVER do to it.

    I've heard experts state that this is completely natural and the earth goes through it every ten thousand years. I think Jake posted a good link a month or so ago too. Lots of great info there if you have a few hours to read up on it.

    I personally think it is fine to conserve and use less energy. I just dont think we make any real impact either way.
     
  20. Scrambler1

    Scrambler1 Full Access Member

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    I did watch it. What about my question about his graph I posted earlier? A rise in temperature leads a rise in CO2, but when CO2 is at its peak temperature begins to drop and then CO2 begins to fall. Why is that? If CO2 is the cause then why does temp drop when CO2 is at its peak?

    How are people who can barely afford what they have now going to be able to purchase this expensive green technology? Especially considering cap and trade will drive up the costs of everything that they currently buy/use?

    Do you agree that the government should use taxes to force us to do what they want? Is that freedom?