Turbo 1 or Turbo 2 ,, you choose

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by VIPR PWR, Oct 12, 2019.

Car Parts
  1. VIPR PWR

    VIPR PWR Full Access Member

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    Looking at options for adding a turbo ? Look no more !

    Turbo 1 ——.
    esthetically pleasing design to look at . Pricing within anyone’s budget ... performance gains lacking ...

    Turbo 2 ~~. https://youtu.be/IHTS5kiBsJw
    somewhat bulky , pricing varies , performance gains close to what is expected ....

    o_O
     
  2. rottenronnie

    rottenronnie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I'd choose the 3rd option. ;)
     
  3. VIPR PWR

    VIPR PWR Full Access Member

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    Lol. , you sure about that ?
     
  4. CaptnCrash

    CaptnCrash Full Access Member

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    Pretty funny for sure.
     
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  5. rottenronnie

    rottenronnie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I remember reading the small 2011 FORD Ecoboost turbos spun at 220,000 rpm. That's faster than a Dentist's drill!! Crazy stuff.

    No power adders for me!
    Not on my truck at least.

    I'll have to wait for Spring now to see if I can lower that 11.88 1/4 mile. :)
     
  6. VIPR PWR

    VIPR PWR Full Access Member

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    Ok Ronnie ,, I’m going to have to put up option 3 for you ..
    these guys doing the video are great ... lots of product testing ..
    but check out option 3 ...

     
  7. rottenronnie

    rottenronnie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I'm not sure where you find this stuff. :eek:
    The brief shots of nitrous made quite a difference.
    I can't use much more than a 100 shot as my end gap is too tight and the cam profile is not great for nitrous.
    An 11.6 or even an 11.7 WITH NOTHING AS FAR AS POWER ADDERS GO, would make me smile, sort of like this: :D
    I might try some pvc with a spinner though
     
  8. CaptnCrash

    CaptnCrash Full Access Member

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    There is what was once a very popular upgrade totally N/A for our engines, not sure if you can still get all the parts but I suspect so.

    It's called the 5-4-3 upgrade. Gen 5 intake, gen 4 heads, gen 3 bottom end. With a good cam and possibly stryker heads instead of gen 4's which are pretty good BTW, you can make stupid amounts of power completely N/A ... No power adders of any kind and very reliable.
     
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  9. rottenronnie

    rottenronnie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Yes, I went with an unported Gen III intake (having tried my own ported one); as I wanted more torque, not more peak horsepower at our elevation;
    Unported Street Striker heads,
    My own cam grind 234/236 (not very aggressive), Gen IV oiling system, Billet main caps, treated crank, good rods and 11:1 for pump gas. So, the short block is overbuilt. I'm still at 505 cubic inches.
    Lots of tweaking but the combo yielded very good results: relatively quiet, no smell and 18 imperial miles per gallon on the highway.

    Not a race truck (still with 4 cats, etc.) and other than removing the spare, still quite heavy (5585 pounds) with driver.
    Stock suspension with M&H drag radials.

    According to dyno pulls through the automatic trans and power required to run 115 miles per hour at nearly 5600 pounds, the flywheel power is sitting right at 800.

    So it worked out just fine.

    I like NA as it's a challenge to get the balance right where you want it.

    And yes the Gen IV heads are great performers, out-flowing the Strikers in the all important mid-lift area. Not that more flow is always the measure for more power, but in this case the out of the box Gen IVs work very well.
     
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  10. AMS3

    AMS3 Member

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    I'm no expert, but I've done some research on turbos, root blowers, and superchargers. The best from a heat standpoint is a supercharger because it's air to air inter cooled.
     
  11. rottenronnie

    rottenronnie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Anytime you compress air rapidly with a blower or turbo, the output air (going into the engine) is warmer than it was going into the blower or turbo.

    Very low pressure (a.k.a. "Boost") units don't necessarily require an intercooler; but definitely do for "more serious use" (higher horsepower).
     
  12. Slitherbeast

    Slitherbeast Active Member Supporting Member

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    Making boost with a supercharger takes away horsepower. especially making higher boost. Turbos are "free" horsepower....
     
  13. rottenronnie

    rottenronnie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Yes, spinning a 14-71 on a Top-Fueler' requires around 1000 horsepower these days.
    Crazy stuff!
     
  14. AMS3

    AMS3 Member

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    I've been looking at ProCharger. According to their stats, you can gain up to 50% horsepower from your engine. Personally, I'd prefer lower heat going into the intake, but that's just my opinion.
     
  15. rottenronnie

    rottenronnie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Yes an 50% boost in power with power adders is pretty "easy" these days.
    Keep in mind to do it right (reinforcing/replacing o.e.m. parts not designed for that kind of power increase) takes some planning, time, experimenting with what you have, and money.

    Keep in mind, besides all of the performance promises you'll hear about what a certain product delivers, you are truly re-engineering your engine once you start making the changes. It's very often a domino effect as one change affects the other and not always in a good way.

    I'm NOT trying to discourage you or anyone else but there's a reason that many times, someone makes a bunch of changes to their vehicle and it goes up for sale.

    Plan on spending at least twice what you originally budgeted IF you use the truck when your done and don't build a trailer-queen nor something that never sees a track but gets faster every year in the bar. :)

    Stay stock?? HELL NO !!, I wouldn't (personally) enjoy my truck right now if it were stock as nearly everything goes like hell these days and 500 HP in a 5000+ pound vehicle has become sort of mundane (MY OPINION).
    There is a certain appeal in keeping every nut and bolt stock, it was just never something I did for very long.

    As you may have guessed, I like the science of the performance stuff and although it was a business for me for years, it is now a hobby I still really enjoy.

    It's certainly better to do it with a performance vehicle (our trucks) in the first place, than to expect results with a passenger car that was never designed for anywhere near that big an increase.

    It's taken me a number of years to reach my performance goals with my own truck (NOT a "Race Truck" by any stretch) and is arguably more difficult to hit a 60% boost in power without using any power adders, full exhaust and pump gas, but it's what I wanted for my vehicle.

    I've spoken with Justin (JMB Powdercoat) a few times on the phone and sold him a set of Striker Race heads for a customer of his (Dom). THAT particular SRT-10 runs in the 7s at over 180 miles per hour. I'd likely start with Justin's advice if you are considering a forced induction setup.

    There, yet another LONG answer to a question you didn't really ask.



    "It Always Makes Sense Once You Figure it Out" R.R.
     
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  16. AMS3

    AMS3 Member

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    Thanks for the information. I'm just now researching and learning about aftermarket boost, tunes, etc. The speed shop I use is jam up and they really know their stuff. I'll be picking their brains on how to make this all work. They recently installed a Whipple Charger on a Mustang, and good lord that thing is fast, LOL. First thing I'm going to do though, is have headers and exhaust installed. I'll need a tune for that, correct? Is 3" exhaust stock for the truck, or is it 2.5"?
     
  17. rottenronnie

    rottenronnie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Yes, by all means, do your research. The JTEC (Jeep Truck Engine Controllers) controllers on these trucks (ecu) are not normal. It is very easy to pop a piston if you don't work with a tuner that knows these controllers and the viper engines. Look for someone that HAS A BACKGROUND TUNING THESE ENGINES.
    I have used Chris Jensen for tuning since my truck was brand new. He is the guy the other guys go to when they have tuning questions. I've also tried a few others mentioned on this site and went back to Chris.
    I also tried a guy with a successful background in tuning 7 second Mustangs. That particular tune cost me a lot of money.
    Ask around, have fun.
     
  18. rottenronnie

    rottenronnie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Regarding "that particular tune cost me a lot of money" (above)...

    It cost me a lot of money because this guys tune blew a chunk of piston right off the top of #8.

    I was ready to rip it all apart anyway and it was all in the name of science I guess. Rather expensive experiment though.

    These engines (VERY few will) won't tolerate detonation which comes immediately if the tune is too aggressive.

    As it is all integrated, once the tuners start working on fuel and spark lookup tables (just like an Excel Spreadsheet) it can AND WILL affect other systems in your truck. For example shift quality can go south (automatic trans) if the tuner isn't familiar with the JTEC/Viper engines even though he thinks he "did nothing" with the transmission.
     
  19. SrtBrad

    SrtBrad Michel Productions

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  20. rottenronnie

    rottenronnie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Looking the dial (uncorrected) and the final number, there is a whopping 40% correction factor.