BOOST CONTROLLER

[505'sFastestViper.]

LOLOLOL thats between you and Justin,,,,,i still have reservations about a single that big

tony its not that big your turbos are just way too small.....i have seen a 347ci sb ford with twin 88 and he ran 6s..........505 cu in spooling up ONE 98mm will spool up faster than twin 76s....i will bet money on that and it will come in earlier......wanna bet on that one:dontknow: :dontknow:

 

[505'sFastestViper.]

here is my ams 1000 mounted in the dash

 

[Black1]

actually too turbo smart makes a nice one also, and a little less priced

http://www.turbosmartonline.com/

as well as the one devildog psoted

Thanks, Tony. I've heard their name before... been around a while, I'm sure. :rock:

To be perfectly honest.... I don't have the slightest CLUE about Turbos. :dontknow: The turbo on Sarah's Talon is hosed, and the motor had 170+ THOUSAND miles on it. So, I'm having my friend (who happens to own a shop up in Michigan, where the car is currently located) rebuild it for me. We are just doing "reliability" upgrades (or that's what I'm telling the wife heheheh)...... Anyways, I have a Forced Performance "Big" 28 coming. It's a real "sleeper".... it's got all Garrett Ball-Bearing turbo stuff (from the 16G) in a STOCK (modified) Mitsubishi T-25 housing. It's capable of 24lbs of boost! (Stock is about 8lbs). Should push the car up to about 290fwhp. :rock: ........ But, I need to find out if I can put some sort of Electronic boost control on it. :dontknow: They recommended a "manual" boost controller. But, I think it would be nice to just hit a button and be precise, instead of turning a knob and "winging it". :dontknow:

.... Thing is.... I don't know what needs to be done to add a electronic boost controller.... :dontknow: Maybe someone could help me out here? Here is a pic of the set-up (notice the vacuum actuated (I think) boost valve?)

 

[505'sFastestViper.]

you have to ditch the internal wastegate and run a tial

 

[TMCNORWAY]

Hey dom

That install looks neat and inconspicuous enough for me.

Looks like the AMS is the one,

Is it fairly easy to use once its set-up?

 

[GADodgetech]

Thanks, Tony. I've heard their name before... been around a while, I'm sure. :rock:

To be perfectly honest.... I don't have the slightest CLUE about Turbos. :dontknow: The turbo on Sarah's Talon is hosed, and the motor had 170+ THOUSAND miles on it. So, I'm having my friend (who happens to own a shop up in Michigan, where the car is currently located) rebuild it for me. We are just doing "reliability" upgrades (or that's what I'm telling the wife heheheh)...... Anyways, I have a Forced Performance "Big" 28 coming. It's a real "sleeper".... it's got all Garrett Ball-Bearing turbo stuff (from the 16G) in a STOCK (modified) Mitsubishi T-25 housing. It's capable of 24lbs of boost! (Stock is about 8lbs). Should push the car up to about 290fwhp. :rock: ........ But, I need to find out if I can put some sort of Electronic boost control on it. :dontknow: They recommended a "manual" boost controller. But, I think it would be nice to just hit a button and be precise, instead of turning a knob and "winging it". :dontknow:

.... Thing is.... I don't know what needs to be done to add a electronic boost controller.... :dontknow: Maybe someone could help me out here? Here is a pic of the set-up (notice the vacuum actuated (I think) boost valve?)

Be careful that thing might be faster than your Pt cruiser

 

[Black1]

you have to ditch the internal wastegate and run a tial

Yep, planning on that.... (not necessarily a Tial, but something similar). Does the electronic boost controller run off the wastegate? Do most aftermarket wastegates (like the Tial) come with provisions to run a boost controller? :dontknow:

 

[Black1]

Be careful that thing might be faster than your Pt cruiser

I would certainly hope so....

 

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

tony its not that big your turbos are just way too small.....i have seen a 347ci sb ford with twin 88 and he ran 6s..........505 cu in spooling up ONE 98mm will spool up faster than twin 76s....i will bet money on that and it will come in earlier......wanna bet on that one:dontknow: :dontknow:

your talkkin drag racing and every day normal driving, two entirely different things.

and no, not gonna debate this one, jsut too many variables here to get started on it.

but this is my personal felling on it , a big single has to have so much air to get on boost, and yes we have 500 cubic inches, but it is alot easier to move two smaller 76mm turbos than it is on big turbo, that has been proven too many times.

Most drag racers run a single jsut because it can move a mountain of air, and make huge numbers, but also they boost off the line to get the turbo spooling.

but to me....for everyday driving and easier daily driving, a twin set up is just an easier on the pedal move.

the bigger the turbo, the more air it needs , and most of the time the more lag it has.

 

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

Yep, planning on that.... (not necessarily a Tial, but something similar). Does the electronic boost controller run off the wastegate? Do most aftermarket wastegates (like the Tial) come with provisions to run a boost controller? :dontknow:

jake you would need to run an external wastegate first.

but what a controller does is it controlls the wastegate, when it opens, how much it opens, and how long it opens.

a wastegate is internally controlled by a spring, and the spring rate determines when it will release the boost.

in othere words, as boost climbs, an say you have a 5 lb spring, it should start to release pressureas you reach 5lbs boost, problem is most of the time yhou can double the boost made by the lb of spring, hence 5lb spring, 10lbs boost.

but what a controller does is manually release that pressure when it gets to a preset point, and keeps from spikes occuring

 

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

in a single turbo set up, your spooling is linear and peaks off. Meaning that your car will gradually accelerate as the turbo spool until it is maxed out (nothing new here). The problem however, is that once you let off the gas pedal you will loose the pressure built up by the turbo and will need to feed it back in as you get back on the throttle. This isn't always a bad thing. In cases where throttle application has to be precise, a properly set up single turbo will help a lot by giving you a bigger margin of error. Of course a bigger turbo isn't always better as it'll give you more lag and the proper piping size and computer tune is required. But since its a 505 cid engine you'll have enough low end to allow you to spool a fairly sized turbo in no time while significantly increasing your top speed and reducing the amount of lag.

A twin turbo set up is all about response. You gas and it goes. Most twin turbo kits are geared for quick spool. If you're looking for zero lag, whiplash, and insane acceleration then this is what you want. However this can also be bad. Your margin of error is greatly reduced by a twin turbo set up since the car becomes too responsive. Too much throttle can cause the rear tires to break traction and if you're not ready for that, it can get ugly. However, if breaking traction is what you want then you're all good. It all depends on your racing application.

 

[JMB Justin]

2 myths in this thread that need clearing up:

-You dont have to run an external wastegate to run any boost controller, it is just hooked up differenty. I would run a greddy profec B for a budget electronic boost controller, or a hallman pro for a manual. I do not like the AEM truboost, and most others are quite a bit pricier. Turbosmart Eboost 2 is nice, but is $500 and too much for a 300hp car IMO. Mark, you will love the AMS1000, very nice unit for sure!

-Spool time on turbo's is based on many varables, but you cant accurately say small twins will spool faster than a big single or vice versa. We already proved Doms 88MM single turbo spooled faster than Tonys twin 67's by comparing dyno sheets, and Doms also made more power with less boost. Best of all worlds, but with different turbos Tonys could potentially spool as fast and make as much power. You have to keep in mind that two small turbos are using half the motor to spool them and one large one is using the entire motor, so there are tons of other variables. I feel pretty confident the 98mm will make full boost on the street by 3500ish RPM, the 88MM did it before 3000 from a 2K RPM hit. Thats an approximate 2500RPM powerband and will hopefully shock the tires less than the 88MM did (picking up 600WHP in less than 1 second will shock the tires BTW)
Justin

 

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

2 myths in this thread that need clearing up:

-You dont have to run an external wastegate to run any boost controller, it is just hooked up differenty. I would run a greddy profec B for a budget electronic boost controller, or a hallman pro for a manual. I do not like the AEM truboost, and most others are quite a bit pricier. Turbosmart Eboost 2 is nice, but is $500 and too much for a 300hp car IMO. Mark, you will love the AMS1000, very nice unit for sure!

-Spool time on turbo's is based on many varables, but you cant accurately say small twins will spool faster than a big single or vice versa. We already proved Doms 88MM single turbo spooled faster than Tonys twin 67's by comparing dyno sheets, and Doms also made more power with less boost. Best of all worlds, but with different turbos Tonys could potentially spool as fast and make as much power. You have to keep in mind that two small turbos are using half the motor to spool them and one large one is using the entire motor, so there are tons of other variables. I feel pretty confident the 98mm will make full boost on the street by 3500ish RPM, the 88MM did it before 3000 from a 2K RPM hit. Thats an approximate 2500RPM powerband and will hopefully shock the tires less than the 88MM did (picking up 600WHP in less than 1 second will shock the tires BTW)
Justin

LOLOL like I say , its all in personal preference

 

[Black1]

2 myths in this thread that need clearing up:

-You dont have to run an external wastegate to run any boost controller, it is just hooked up differenty. I would run a greddy profec B for a budget electronic boost controller, or a hallman pro for a manual. I do not like the AEM truboost, and most others are quite a bit pricier. Turbosmart Eboost 2 is nice, but is $500 and too much for a 300hp car IMO. Mark, you will love the AMS1000, very nice unit for sure!

......
Justin

Thanks so much, Justin! :rock: :rock: :rock: I might be calling you about this, is that cool? I also need to have the intake manifold and valve cover powder coated.... I'm planning on sending those to you soon.

 

[TMCNORWAY]

Thanks guys,

I do agree with both of you on the fact that its all about personal opinions,
and i'm not sucking up here but i've always loved my big single turbo's

Especially On my RS500 Cosworths.
So i'm gonna go with the big 98 :burnout:

 

[OsirruZ]

2 myths in this thread that need clearing up:

-You dont have to run an external wastegate to run any boost controller, it is just hooked up differenty. I would run a greddy profec B for a budget electronic boost controller, or a hallman pro for a manual. I do not like the AEM truboost, and most others are quite a bit pricier. Turbosmart Eboost 2 is nice, but is $500 and too much for a 300hp car IMO. Mark, you will love the AMS1000, very nice unit for sure!

-Spool time on turbo's is based on many varables, but you cant accurately say small twins will spool faster than a big single or vice versa. We already proved Doms 88MM single turbo spooled faster than Tonys twin 67's by comparing dyno sheets, and Doms also made more power with less boost. Best of all worlds, but with different turbos Tonys could potentially spool as fast and make as much power. You have to keep in mind that two small turbos are using half the motor to spool them and one large one is using the entire motor, so there are tons of other variables. I feel pretty confident the 98mm will make full boost on the street by 3500ish RPM, the 88MM did it before 3000 from a 2K RPM hit. Thats an approximate 2500RPM powerband and will hopefully shock the tires less than the 88MM did (picking up 600WHP in less than 1 second will shock the tires BTW)
Justin

I agree with everything said here. I also nominate the Greddy profec S. It's the most widely used boost controller in all the pro import racers. It's easy and very precise. There are other options like the HKS EVC EZ and Blitz boost controllers that are all great pieces but none of them are as easy and dependable like the Profec S. If 6 and 7 second cars use them, then the proof is in the purchase.

Now as far as spooling time goes, like Justin said there are a lot of variables. Exhaust AR size makes a lot of difference. The smaller the ar size the less lag and "usually" slightly more HP. The bigger the ar, the more the lag and less HP but more torque.

Now Dom, I am not a rich man, dont claim to be, but this is one bet I will take with you. So lets not make this bet for an astronimical amount please. Im not sure what size turbo you are stepping up to since you got rid of the 47-88. Im guessing 55-91. Until I see it on paper, or should I say dyno screen shot, I bet your going to be laggier than Tony. If I had to guess I would say by 1000 rpms. Ive never seen a dyno sheet on Stinks truck so I dont even know where he starts building positive boost. Regardless, my opinion is you will be laggier than he is. 100 bucks or winners choice of a couple cases of beer?

 

[505'sFastestViper.]

I agree with everything said here. I also nominate the Greddy profec S. It's the most widely used boost controller in all the pro import racers. It's easy and very precise. There are other options like the HKS EVC EZ and Blitz boost controllers that are all great pieces but none of them are as easy and dependable like the Profec S. If 6 and 7 second cars use them, then the proof is in the purchase.

Now as far as spooling time goes, like Justin said there are a lot of variables. Exhaust AR size makes a lot of difference. The smaller the ar size the less lag and "usually" slightly more HP. The bigger the ar, the more the lag and less HP but more torque.

Now Dom, I am not a rich man, dont claim to be, but this is one bet I will take with you. So lets not make this bet for an astronimical amount please. Im not sure what size turbo you are stepping up to since you got rid of the 47-88. Im guessing 55-91. Until I see it on paper, or should I say dyno screen shot, I bet your going to be laggier than Tony. If I had to guess I would say by 1000 rpms. Ive never seen a dyno sheet on Stinks truck so I dont even know where he starts building positive boost. Regardless, my opinion is you will be laggier than he is. 100 bucks or winners choice of a couple cases of beer?

ill take that bet...... ....you have to remember my build buddy that all im gonna say.....

hahaha you still wanna take that bet

 

[505'sFastestViper.]

tonys

 

[OsirruZ]

Well naturally a little laughing gas will help things out. But so will this thing

http://www.sound-performance.com/p192/Sound-Performance-Quick-Spool-Valve/product_info.html

New little device that has recently hit the market. If you're going to be launching on slicks, you going to be running a 2-step? Or just gonna spray it off the line?

Hell, yeah, bet's still on. I don't mind shipping beer or paying money. Beer and money make the world go round.

 

[Tooloe]

ill take that bet...... ....you have to remember my build buddy that all im gonna say.....

hahaha you still wanna take that bet

damn..... yall have found my secret :rock: :rock: