Roe Racing
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Hi Everyone,
I have to make a decision based on solid information and need your input. It’s regarding the Top Mount Twin Screw Supercharger kits we’ve been making.
Back in late 2006, when we began sending out the kits in a production form, they were intended to be a product that added great HP per dollar while pushing the capabilities of the stock engine to the limits of the pistons. In the regard of the pistons, we’ve all seen since then that their durability is really weak to any form of forced induction. Many people who go F.I. on their engines end up upgrading the internals (pistons and rods) to make repairs and accommodate the power adders.
Some things have changed since we began making the SC kits a few years ago. Improvements to the compressor and engine management have been made, but mainly, the cost to produce has changed. At the time I began making them, I owned two CNC machining centers. To figure out what the kits had to sell for, I simply took my cost of materials, the monthly payments on the machines divided by 40 hours a week and multiplied by the time it took to machine the parts, the cost of the individual smaller parts (injectors, bolts, etc) and added the actual labor time at the shop labor rate to machine / assemble / package each kit. That was what the kits ended up being sold for. We were basically covering expenses and earning our income based on the labor work done. It was a fair way to do it.
Last October, we downsized and I sold the CNC machines. There are lots of machine shops needing work right now, so I was able to justify loosing that floor space and overhead in favor of having parts made as needed at outside shops. Before selling the machines, we made a bunch of inventory. So, over the last several months we’ve been using that inventory and taking the time to test a different supercharger (the Eaton TVS 2300). As an FYI, the Eaton is not “better†in this application and we’re not going to go with it on the trucks. The 3.3L is still better.
So, here’s where we’re at today. In order to make more kits, I had to get current price quotes on machine work and parts.
Until now, the kits were $6150 in black. Let’s say that the peak HP to peak HP gain was 150 (though obviously, the percentage gain and torque gain at lower RPM’s is much higher). $6,150 divided by 150 equals $41 per HP. That’s pretty cheap horsepower in a specialty / low volume application like this. If you use a smaller pulley and get another 25-50 HP, that HP to dollar figure gets even better.
To build today’s kits, it’s going to cost $7,365. An SCT or VEC3 will be beyond that (we won’t make it a part of a package now because so many of them are out there). Using the same 150 HP value as before, that makes each HP gain about $49. Still ok, but before I go out and borrow on a credit line to make kits, I need to find out from you guys if there’s enough market / demand / interest in them. I’m not in a position to sit on $73,650 in additional inventory.
There are some other things influencing my decision that you all should be made aware of; I don’t know where the HP cap is for this kit. It wasn’t tested by me beyond about 650 RWHP. If a guy gets a built motor and wants to go higher, this may not be the kit for it. In that case, a twin turbo is the best option. Higher boost and less HP loss due to driving the form of forced induction would absolutely yield more horsepower.
If demand is low on the kits, I’m considering not making them any more and making a twin turbo kit instead. That will allow the guys with existing twin screw Supercharger an outlet to sell the kit at a good price and an avenue to go higher HP on their forced induction. On the Viper cars for example, SC kits that are upwards of seven years old are still bringing $5,000 and some newer ones are trading at $6,500. That’s at least 66% of new. Use the same math on the Ram and a used kit would sell for at least around $4,060. Not bad for the buyer and seller both.
To do a production twin turbo kit with an intercooler would probably run about $9,000 to $10,000 based on what we’re spending on the car kit right now (don’t hold me to that, it’s just an estimate based on current / projected expenses).
Given that a twin screw SC kit will only be about $2,500 less than a Twin Turbo and is HP limited, what would you guys do if it were you? Obviously, if money and man power were dramatically different, I would do both at the same time. But, I’m not in a position to do both at once and if I start making the SC kits now, it will simply put the possibility of a turbo kit that much farther down the road.
Need some input here guys. What do you think? I want to make a sound decision on how to best spend my time and energy. You’re all the ones that would be burning tires at the other end of this process, so your input is very valuable to me.
Thanks in advance,
Sean
I have to make a decision based on solid information and need your input. It’s regarding the Top Mount Twin Screw Supercharger kits we’ve been making.
Back in late 2006, when we began sending out the kits in a production form, they were intended to be a product that added great HP per dollar while pushing the capabilities of the stock engine to the limits of the pistons. In the regard of the pistons, we’ve all seen since then that their durability is really weak to any form of forced induction. Many people who go F.I. on their engines end up upgrading the internals (pistons and rods) to make repairs and accommodate the power adders.
Some things have changed since we began making the SC kits a few years ago. Improvements to the compressor and engine management have been made, but mainly, the cost to produce has changed. At the time I began making them, I owned two CNC machining centers. To figure out what the kits had to sell for, I simply took my cost of materials, the monthly payments on the machines divided by 40 hours a week and multiplied by the time it took to machine the parts, the cost of the individual smaller parts (injectors, bolts, etc) and added the actual labor time at the shop labor rate to machine / assemble / package each kit. That was what the kits ended up being sold for. We were basically covering expenses and earning our income based on the labor work done. It was a fair way to do it.
Last October, we downsized and I sold the CNC machines. There are lots of machine shops needing work right now, so I was able to justify loosing that floor space and overhead in favor of having parts made as needed at outside shops. Before selling the machines, we made a bunch of inventory. So, over the last several months we’ve been using that inventory and taking the time to test a different supercharger (the Eaton TVS 2300). As an FYI, the Eaton is not “better†in this application and we’re not going to go with it on the trucks. The 3.3L is still better.
So, here’s where we’re at today. In order to make more kits, I had to get current price quotes on machine work and parts.
Until now, the kits were $6150 in black. Let’s say that the peak HP to peak HP gain was 150 (though obviously, the percentage gain and torque gain at lower RPM’s is much higher). $6,150 divided by 150 equals $41 per HP. That’s pretty cheap horsepower in a specialty / low volume application like this. If you use a smaller pulley and get another 25-50 HP, that HP to dollar figure gets even better.
To build today’s kits, it’s going to cost $7,365. An SCT or VEC3 will be beyond that (we won’t make it a part of a package now because so many of them are out there). Using the same 150 HP value as before, that makes each HP gain about $49. Still ok, but before I go out and borrow on a credit line to make kits, I need to find out from you guys if there’s enough market / demand / interest in them. I’m not in a position to sit on $73,650 in additional inventory.
There are some other things influencing my decision that you all should be made aware of; I don’t know where the HP cap is for this kit. It wasn’t tested by me beyond about 650 RWHP. If a guy gets a built motor and wants to go higher, this may not be the kit for it. In that case, a twin turbo is the best option. Higher boost and less HP loss due to driving the form of forced induction would absolutely yield more horsepower.
If demand is low on the kits, I’m considering not making them any more and making a twin turbo kit instead. That will allow the guys with existing twin screw Supercharger an outlet to sell the kit at a good price and an avenue to go higher HP on their forced induction. On the Viper cars for example, SC kits that are upwards of seven years old are still bringing $5,000 and some newer ones are trading at $6,500. That’s at least 66% of new. Use the same math on the Ram and a used kit would sell for at least around $4,060. Not bad for the buyer and seller both.
To do a production twin turbo kit with an intercooler would probably run about $9,000 to $10,000 based on what we’re spending on the car kit right now (don’t hold me to that, it’s just an estimate based on current / projected expenses).
Given that a twin screw SC kit will only be about $2,500 less than a Twin Turbo and is HP limited, what would you guys do if it were you? Obviously, if money and man power were dramatically different, I would do both at the same time. But, I’m not in a position to do both at once and if I start making the SC kits now, it will simply put the possibility of a turbo kit that much farther down the road.
Need some input here guys. What do you think? I want to make a sound decision on how to best spend my time and energy. You’re all the ones that would be burning tires at the other end of this process, so your input is very valuable to me.
Thanks in advance,
Sean
