Water/Meth Injection help?

[SANTEEN]

I'm considering going with a meth injection setup. I figure if it's kept Alex safe all this time, then it must be a good idea. Plus, something tells me that I may need a little extra help to keep up with the big dogs at the upcoming PCB GTG. Got a couple of questions:
1) was looking at the Snow Performance stage 2 kit. Is there another one that's recommended?
2) I see alot of people using their factory washer tank as the meth/water reservoir. Can the water/meth mixture still be used to clean the windshield or will it damage the finish.
3) What are you guys using for the water/meth mixture? I see Snow sells their own Boost Juice 49% meth, some people recommend Super Tech washer fluid 36% meth and I think ROE recommends some other stuff.

 

[eddie102870]

i bought mine from Roe Racing, quick easy install. doesnt take but about 30 minutes but i had a vec3, have no idea how it works with a SCT

 

[Ironhead]

quit smoking that meth it rots your teeth out :aetsch:

 

[Bone]

1) snow kit is good - VEC can trigger meth/water also
2) Yes
3) Plenty of posts on this. Best to use mix. Many variables. 50/50 seems to be what many people use. Standard windshield wiper fluid is around 30% meth.

 

[SANTEEN]

What about nozzle placement? I've read a couple of different things. I've read that placing it before the Intake Temp Sensor is better, because the computer will recognize the coller intake temps and start adding more timing. I'm gonna say this theory is correct, because I noticed a 2 - 3 tenth drop in my 1/8 mile ET, when I added the ice box into my system. When I first added the ice box and noticed it dropped my IAT's down to about 90 degrees, I contacted Torrie and asked him if I needed to re-tune. He told me no, that the computer would adjust accordingly. And sure enough it did, which can be verified by my drop in ET's. Now, I've also read that putting closer to throttle opening or directly into the manifold, you'll get more of the octane increase benefit. But, I would think this route, would require re-tuning.:dontknow: So, which is better?

Here's an iteresting write-up from teh DEVILSOWN webiste, which is alos a pretty good system, from what I've been told.
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/articles/where-to-locate-your-alcohol-water-injection-nozzle-2/

 

[BLWNSRT]

I've got snows stage 2 and used the factory washer jug.

 

[TNVIPER]

The meth/water is not a power booster in it's self...even though the meth is about 110 octane it has less BTUs (energey rating) per volume than gasoline...the only advantage is cooling the intake charge and preventing detonation.........putting it before the IAT sensor is advantagous because the PCM wont pull timing due to high temps....my IAT will drop 25 degrees in less than 2 seconds...

 

[Hueyguy626]

I am flabbergasted at what i just read...you guys are taking the stock window washer jug and using it as in injector system for water/meth mix.. That's so cool, and also i had no idea that window washer fluid had meth in it..
i used to race rc nitro trucks and the one i had ran on a meth fuel.. could that be used??? just currious

 

[TNVIPER]

I am flabbergasted at what i just read...you guys are taking the stock window washer jug and using it as in injector system for water/meth mix.. That's so cool, and also i had no idea that window washer fluid had meth in it..
i used to race rc nitro trucks and the one i had ran on a meth fuel.. could that be used??? just currious

Dont use the washer fluid...it will leave nasty deposits in your intake.....use a 49 methanol - 51 water mix...

 

[SANTEEN]

The meth/water is not a power booster in it's self...even though the meth is about 110 octane it has less BTUs (energey rating) per volume than gasoline...the only advantage is cooling the intake charge and preventing detonation.........putting it before the IAT sensor is advantagous because the PCM wont pull timing due to high temps....my IAT will drop 25 degrees in less than 2 seconds...

Larry,
You have your nozzles installed before the IAT sensor? Torrie suggested right at the throttle opening and it would need to be tuned. But, he may have suggested this, knowing that I'm running an icebox setup for the track. So, that system already lowers my intake temps dramatically. Also Larry, what system are you running?

 

[Smokey]

ive been hearing the stuff from walmart (the cheap stuff $.99)is a 40% mix

 

[TNVIPER]

Larry,
You have your nozzles installed before the IAT sensor? Torrie suggested right at the throttle opening and it would need to be tuned. But, he may have suggested this, knowing that I'm running an icebox setup for the track. So, that system already lowers my intake temps dramatically. Also Larry, what system are you running?

I have read debates about where the placement is best....If you put it right at the TB openning you should have it custom tuned as Torrie said....I put mine about half way between the filter box and the TB for 2 reasons...

I was not going to get it tuned anytime soon and there was arguement that is the better placement....It makes sense that the IAT temps being lower would keep the PCM from pulling timing on a hot track day...

Whick position is better?...:dontknow: .........but Torrie knows his stuff so I would have to go with TB placement providing you can get it custom tuned..

My meth injection is actually a prototype Sean Roe put together for me when I switched to the SCT...the install directions were handwritten with a pencil on notebook paper...this is the similiar to what he sells now....it comes on at about 5lbs (is adjustable) boost and pulses based on injector signal...

 

[TNVIPER]

ive been hearing the stuff from walmart (the cheap stuff $.99)is a 40% mix

As I have already mentioned dont use washer fluid..it has additives that will make a mess in your intake and ports...

 

[SANTEEN]

I have read debates about where the placement is best....If you put it right at the TB openning you should have it custom tuned as Torrie said....I put mine about half way between the filter box and the TB for 2 reasons...

I was not going to get it tuned anytime soon and there was arguement that is the better placement....It makes sense that the IAT temps being lower would keep the PCM from pulling timing on a hot track day...

Whick position is better?...:dontknow: .........but Torrie knows his stuff so I would have to go with TB placement providing you can get it custom tuned..

My meth injection is actually a prototype Sean Roe put together for me when I switched to the SCT...the install directions were handwritten with a pencil on notebook paper...this is the similiar to what he sells now....it comes on at about 5lbs (is adjustable) boost and pulses based on injector signal...

Good deal Larry. What I may do is go with a dual nozzle set up. I may put the 375 ml/min (rated at 350-475rwhp) nozzle at the front of the TB and the 175 ml/min (rated at 250-350rwhp) just before the IAT sensor.

 

[TNVIPER]

Good deal Larry. What I may do is go with a dual nozzle set up. I may put the 375 ml/min (rated at 350-475rwhp) nozzle at the front of the TB and the 175 ml/min (rated at 250-350rwhp) just before the IAT sensor.

Hadnt thought of that...good idea!:rock:

 

[BLWNSRT]

Good deal Larry. What I may do is go with a dual nozzle set up. I may put the 375 ml/min (rated at 350-475rwhp) nozzle at the front of the TB and the 175 ml/min (rated at 250-350rwhp) just before the IAT sensor.

I was going to do the same but use both 375 nozzles. Just haven't mounted the other nozzle. You can also get a progressive kit with the snows so they come on at different psi of boost so you will have no bogging issues.

 

[SANTEEN]

Hadnt thought of that...good idea!:rock:

I'll still need to get Torrie to tune it. He already said that he'll come down here. So, I may try to get some kind of South Florida dyno day set up at the same place Torrie did Clints, Wes's and my truck.

 

[SANTEEN]

I was going to do the same but use both 375 nozzles. Just haven't mounted the other nozzle. You can also get a progressive kit with the snows so they come on at different psi of boost so you will have no bogging issues.

I saw that. That's the stage 2 kit, which is the one that I'm looking at. Very easy to install and reads manifold pressure. I can tell you and Torrie will confirm, cooling the IAT's on our trucks is a great performance booster, that alot of us are not using.. I've proven it with my ice box setup and there's no additional tuning required. The ecu will adjust accordingly.

 

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

jsut remember too , the placement of your bottle is important, keep the fluid as cool as possible, mounted in an area with plenty of air circulation

 

[LitemUp]

Ok numb nuts here is the dilly.

I would recommend going with the Snow Performance Kit cause it comes with a high output pump (220 psi instead of 150 psi which means better atomization).

1. Location - In my case I'm using it as additional fuel so that I can run more timing in my tune that's why I choose my location to behind the TB with dual nozzles. It made the install a bit more complicated. But what I would recommend for your application is a single nozzle about 8-12 inches from the TB. That should be plenty enough room to cool the air charge and atomize better so it can distribute evenly through both blades in the TB it also makes the install a lot less complicated. The problem going with 2 nozzles in front of the TB is that our charge pipe has sharp bends and you don't that shit puddling up in the pipe (that was another reason why I decided to place my nozzle behind the TB in the Intake manifold)
2. Nozzle - That will all depend on the motor and what you want your end result to be (I'll explain later in the "Tune" part). I started with "dual" .175 ml and then jump up to dual .375 again I went aggressive with the nozzle size because of my application. I would recommend that you get the .225 ml, .375 ml, and .625 ml and see which one works best.
3. Tank - Trust me on this one you will want to use the windshield washer tank. (1st it holds approximately 4 liters, 2nd you have an low fluid sensor built in and you monitor it from your dash).
4. Tune - You would definetly want to tune the truck after you install the meth to take full advantage (ie. with either more timing, more boost, or both)
5. Meth - I get a 5 gallon tank of VP Racing Fuel M1 it cost $40, and I get it directly from VP distributor in Ft Lauderdale. and mix it 50/50 with distilled water from Publix or where ever. I use a reverse osmosis water from a filteration unit I have at home. I go throug a 5 gallon tank in about 8-10 months depending on how frisky I feel. DO NOT use tap water all of the chemicals in it will clog the nozzle. DO NOT use windshield washer fluid all of the chemicals in it will clog the nozzle. All of that other stuff that is premixed is way over priced. You also have another option of going to Murray's on Kendal Dr and I think 132 Ave and buy whatever meth they are selling there I think its Southern Blend.

That's pretty much everything I can think of right now. Let me know if you have any questions.