Why so Rich???

[Dave T(BADVENM)]

ViperTruck and DaveT - No offense but you cannot gauge your A/F by the look of the exhaust tips. Only a wideband O2 is going to tell you. You could be pig rich at idle and cruising but not at WOT.

Like I said before I have never used those tunes so I don't know where they run. You could very well be pig rich at WOT, but I like to be cautious and not assume

You're probably right. The part of me talking to Dan about this is true however I did have a co-worker that races with me witness the black smoke while racing at hastings motorsports park. Not sure why since I was in 3rd gear the whole time :dontknow:

 

[dblankenbaker]

Look at it this way: If it wasn't rich from the factory, after you add a K&N filter, headers, high-flow cats, and 3" exhaust it would be way too lean.

 

[SWIFT]

Still to lean for my liking...maybe on other motors, but not these creampuff internals...

12.5 would be the leanest I would go @ wot on a N/A Gen 3 w/ stock internals

Just my opinion of course

These are far from creampuff internals. Not many other motors out there can handle 600rwhp on stock internals. Which is around where these motors are limited to with good tuning.
I am by no means saying your not right for wanting yours alittle on the rich side. But 12.5 is NOT lean on a N/A motor, unless your close to the limit of the stock internals then by all means staying rich is definately the way to go.

 

[Bone]

Here are my A/F ratios of Boomer's Flash and the Stock flash.

Stock
RPM vs A/F ratio
3500 = 13.7
4000 = 12.2
4500 = 11.1
5000 = 11.6
5500 = 12.2
highest @ 3500 = 13.7
lowest @ 4600 = 11.1

Boomer's (B&G)
3500 = 12.2
4000 = 11.6
4500 = 10.9
5000 = 11.1
5500 = 11.4
highest @ 3500 = 12.2
lowest @ 4900 = 10.0


So as you can see, as far as A/F ratio Boomer's (B&Gs) is plenty safe. If anything, could use some leaning out for more performance. Once again, varies due to mods and truck. I believe my mods at the time were 172 T-stat, Belangers, mids with high flows and Magnaflow.

The aggressive part of the flash is the timing. But that is what we are paying for, a performance PCM.:rock:

 

[SWIFT]

Here are my A/F ratios of Boomer's Flash and the Stock flash.

Stock
RPM vs A/F ratio
3500 = 13.7
4000 = 12.2
4500 = 11.1
5000 = 11.6
5500 = 12.2
highest @ 3500 = 13.7
lowest @ 4600 = 11.1

Boomer's (B&G)
3500 = 12.2
4000 = 11.6
4500 = 10.9
5000 = 11.1
5500 = 11.4
highest @ 3500 = 12.2
lowest @ 4900 = 10.0


So as you can see, as far as A/F ratio Boomer's (B&Gs) is plenty safe. If anything, could use some leaning out for more performance. Once again, varies due to mods and truck. I believe my mods at the time were 172 T-stat, Belangers, mids with high flows and Magnaflow.

The aggressive part of the flash is the timing. But that is what we are paying for, a performance PCM.:rock:

Was this tuned for nitrous?

 

[RedSrt007]

These are far from creampuff internals. Not many other motors out there can handle 600rwhp on stock internals. Which is around where these motors are limited to with good tuning.
I am by no means saying your not right for wanting yours alittle on the rich side. But 12.5 is NOT lean on a N/A motor, unless your close to the limit of the stock internals then by all means staying rich is definately the way to go.

With all due respect, I agree, yet disagree with you....

Do our motors handle 600hp on stock internals, absolutely, I knew first hand as I had a 700 Rwhp w/ stock internals, but it was also tuned to 11.5...

600rwhp (roughly 675 flywheel) is very achievable on a 500hp stock block due to the displacement we have from the factory..but that's a whole nother topic; we are discussing safe a/f's.

Going back and fourth on a/f numbers is like convincing someone what type of oil to use, everyone has there own experience and knowledge, but I am just stating my own personal experiences.

I never stated that 12.5 is too lean, I stated that 12.5 @ wot is the leanest (read most aggressive) I would ever run a n/a motor. 12.0-12.2 would be better due to the uncertainty of what could happen without some sort of 'buffer'.

I tend to tune my vehicles safe for weather changes and anything else that might happen suddenly. Ask FstJack, He has ridden with me when I tune the viper's air/fuel and timing.....Same with the N/A stage 2's, they run MAX @ 12.0-12.2 on the low end and 11's on the higher rpms; its just not worth the extra 20hp.

Once again...My Humble Opinion

 

[Bone]

Was this tuned for nitrous?

Not on those dyno's.

Stock flash vs Boomers flash (stage 2) as per header of column.

I have a VEC, I can change the tune in 2 secs. However, the VEC was not used on these runs.

 

[QClikeKW]

Had to send my stage 2 back to DC and take some timing back out as I could not find 93 octane in my area,S.Florida, with every brand there is within 3 miles of my door that did not detonate from mild to to serious at some point in the rev range !
Absoultely great service by DC Performance though as they took a little out and overnighted it back to me no charge!
A MUST DO MOD ON A QUAD :burnout:

 

[AWDisuzu]

they probably have to run rich to keep the engine temps down, especially the way we drive them! When I start mine up and let it idle, it smells like a ton of unburned fuel though so the light throttle and idle maps should be leaned out IMO.

 

[RAM82A1]

Do the '05's and '06's have knock sensors?

 

[AWDisuzu]

yes, although it doesnt seem to do much as my stage 2 flash causes a LOT of knock unless I put in a bottle of torco. (which I've been doing for 20,000+ miles and still havent run out of the original 5 gallon can I bought!)

I wonder if the knock sensor is disabled in the stage 2 flash?
Mike

 

[VA VIPERAM]

OK, now I know why we all have to run so rich. :idea: I'm new to the Viper V-10's so it's a scavenger hunt for me on how they built these engines. I saw pictures this morning of the stock engines disassembled. I see three things that explain it. The combustion chamber majorly shrouds the valves and leaves a thin "hot spot" between the valves to promote detonation. The pistons further promote detonation by having thin material between the valve reliefs and having a recessed area under the quench area. Also, the head gasket is too thick and the deck height needs to be adjusted (both promote detonation). OK, I guess that's 4 or 5 things, but I'm not adding any external power adders until I at least correct their manufacturing flaws. Everything else in the engine looks like good stuff. I believe there is 80-100 more HP in these engines just by "cleaning up" the combustion chambers and getting the deck height where it should be.
But then again, it's Saturday night and it could be the Bud Light talking!

 

[mmmmtorque]

My truck loves it on the lean side, I usually tune it around 13 arcorss the board but always throw a little extra fuel in at 6000RPMs.

Agree with VA VIPERAM since Arrow built engines with the same OEM parts turn out 40-50 more HP.