Some nitrous help

[camslambam]

Hey guys,

Trying to re do my nitrous build. I have roe racing meth, wet kit with 100, 125, 150 nozzles, and sct. Torrie doing the tuning. My question is, I have REALLY bad gas down here in Central America, thus why I have meth. I will be starting with a 100 shot but will want to work up to a 150.

I'm trying to think of what else I may need to run this build reliably. I currently have it disconnected due to the car acting up, but I'm putting it back into the shop in about 2 weeks when my 5th gen gets out.

Any other things I should be thinking of? As in, fuel pumps? Injectors? Gauges? I'm thinking I should probably get a AFR and a fuel pressure gauge? CAI? More than anything I want to know what I ABSOLUTELY need. I know I don't need headers for example but it would help. More interested in what is ESSENTIAL.

Thanks guys.... Trying to convince myself not to sell the truck b/c I love it but just isn't what I expected. (probably because I have a 700rwhp 5th gen and just about every car feels slow lol) Hopefully a correct setup nitrous build will help me want to keep it lol!

 

[Slitherbeast]

A/F gauge is a must!! proper positioning of the nozzle very important! Torrie will give you a tune that is 4 degrees retarded. the real power is in the timing so trust torrie, then learn to read the plugs after every run, to make sure there is no detonation before adding any timing. Torrie can send you tunes with more timing as required but will probably want to see some dyno graphs so he can assess were to put in more timing. the fuel is calibrated with the nozzle metering jets. watch your A/F and use the appropriate jet to get proper air/fuel ratio as you run down the track. it all changes as nitrous pressure drops!!! Don't let the A/F get below 12-1 . should be around 11.5 steady throughout the rpm range. Don't use a big shot of nitrous below 2000 rpm. Zex recommends not below 3500 rpm for any sized shot. .......just my 2 cents becareful!! stuff is like crack cocaine!! READ THE PLUGS!! ALL OF THEM!! OFTEN!! these engines will only detonate once!!

 

[VENOMOUS1 RACING]

A/F gauge is a must!! proper positioning of the nozzle very important! Torrie will give you a tune that is 4 degrees retarded. the real power is in the timing so trust torrie, then learn to read the plugs after every run, to make sure there is no detonation before adding any timing. Torrie can send you tunes with more timing as required but will probably want to see some dyno graphs so he can assess were to put in more timing. the fuel is calibrated with the nozzle metering jets. watch your A/F and use the appropriate jet to get proper air/fuel ratio as you run down the track. it all changes as nitrous pressure drops!!! Don't let the A/F get below 12-1 . should be around 11.5 steady throughout the rpm range. Don't use a big shot of nitrous below 2000 rpm. Zex recommends not below 3500 rpm for any sized shot. .......just my 2 cents becareful!! stuff is like crack cocaine!! READ THE PLUGS!! ALL OF THEM!! OFTEN!! these engines will only detonate once!!

Agreed 100%!!!!! I say about 2000 if you can hook in first!! If not use it in 2nd gear about 3500RPMs

 

[camslambam]

Awesome guys thanks. Problem I have is bad bad bad gas down here. My 5th gen is boosted 10+ psi and we have to run meth at 1psi all through the range, with full meth injection at 4psi. I'm guessing we will have to do a similar setup with the meth on the truck and with the nitrous. I'm thinking of having the truck run on meth every WOT because the truck feels VERY VERY VERY slow. I'm thinking the computer is having to pull lots of timing because what is being run through the engine is probably an 88 octane.

Also dynos here are scarce. There's 1 I can use and it won't even read torque... lol.


As is with a 100 shot, will I need to worry about fuel? I have enough injectors and pump I hope correct? What about when I decide to up to a 150 shot?

 

[mjd91]

Since your fuel is so bad why not add a filter setup?

 

[Slitherbeast]

Nitrous with bad gas equals destruction of pistons!!! Nitrous is an engine killer without good gas! maybe you can use alcohol as a fuel or go with a propane injection with the nitrous. i would not go with a dry shot without adding bigger injectors and properly tuned. Your application for nitrous is a disaster waiting!! These trucks need good gas bottomline!! the 06 Quadcabs are the heaviest of the breed!! 5600# without driver!! with your gasoline octane, they will feel slower than most.

 

[AWDisuzu]

I would use race gas when using NOS. or lots of torco

 

[camslambam]

I run 30/70 mix of meth in the camaro. We're in the 7xx rwhp range and we have yet to throw a piston or rod. Still on stock bottom end.

Are you guys saying running this same setup of meth with the nitrous will not work? The 30/70 mix gives us about +18-20 octane points. Even on 88 the meth injection should be upping the octane to 104-108, but most tuners don't tune with meth. I use it as 100% for safety not for power. In other words, I'd have a base tune without meth and just dump meth at WOT with the nitrous to protect from detonation.

 

[VENOMOUS1 RACING]

It's gonna vary engine to engine bro. Our engines don't take kindly to detonation at all. It's not a more forgiving LS engine and it shouldn't be thought of as such. More like an exotic engine, like a Lambo, Ferrari, etc.
Although the internals are very basic and even share similar size parts as a Chevy 350, they are very different.
Not only watching A/F ratio, but the most logic sensor to watch is the knock sensor telling you that the engine is detonating and in turn, pulling timing trying not to grenade itself. I personally know of a guy running a 250 shot but on forged internals with a great tune! Even meth isn't a cure, but rather a band aid. It has it's own issues inside an engine!
The best way is to FIRST ensure the truck is running as it should be the way it sits before N2O. Then add the N2O and watch for knock as well as the A/F ratio through a WOT pull. As said, usually 3-4* of timing is removed on a N2O tune by the tuner. Again this CAN vary engine to engine though.:burnout:

 

[Slitherbeast]

What does this mean? 30% which and 70% what? are you mixing gas in the tank? Without a dyno you must be guessing the 7xx hp? The viper engine has a weak piston when it has to deal with detonation. thin top ring land that will break off, 2 extra pistons and a heavy crankshaft, when things go bad it gets really messy Once you hear detonation when using Nitrous it is already to late!

I run 30/70 mix of meth in the camaro. We're in the 7xx rwhp range and we have yet to throw a piston or rod. Still on stock bottom end.
Are you guys saying running this same setup of meth with the nitrous will not work? The 30/70 mix gives us about +18-20 octane points. Even on 88 the meth injection should be upping the octane to 104-108, but most tuners don't tune with meth. I use it as 100% for safety not for power. In other words, I'd have a base tune without meth and just dump meth at WOT with the nitrous to protect from detonation.

 

[camslambam]

It's gonna vary engine to engine bro. Our engines don't take kindly to detonation at all. It's not a more forgiving LS engine and it shouldn't be thought of as such. More like an exotic engine, like a Lambo, Ferrari, etc.
Although the internals are very basic and even share similar size parts as a Chevy 350, they are very different.
Not only watching A/F ratio, but the most logic sensor to watch is the knock sensor telling you that the engine is detonating and in turn, pulling timing trying not to grenade itself. I personally know of a guy running a 250 shot but on forged internals with a great tune! Even meth isn't a cure, but rather a band aid. It has it's own issues inside an engine!
The best way is to FIRST ensure the truck is running as it should be the way it sits before N2O. Then add the N2O and watch for knock as well as the A/F ratio through a WOT pull. As said, usually 3-4* of timing is removed on a N2O tune by the tuner. Again this CAN vary engine to engine though.:burnout:

Gotcha bro! Well all I can pretty much say is that the 5th gen sees 0 knock with my meth. It's tuned by Jannetty. Going strong at 5k miles so far boosted with a hell lot of abuse.

Would a better option be set up a nitrous hit and when I open the bottle make sure I have torco or an octane booster around to run through the tank AND run meth? I'm really trying to figure out a way to run nitrous.... Like I said it's impossible to find good gas here and VP goes for $1,000/barrel. My only concern would be if I ran octane booster+meth I would be rich as hell.

What does this mean? 30% which and 70% what? are you mixing gas in the tank? Without a dyno you must be guessing the 7xx hp? The viper engine has a weak piston when it has to deal with detonation. thin top ring land that will break off, 2 extra pistons and a heavy crankshaft, when things go bad it gets really messy Once you hear detonation when using Nitrous it is already to late!

30% ethanol alc, 70% water. No I have a seperate meth tank in my trunk, run the line down through a solenoid. I begin injecting at 1psi and full inject at 4psi. We have had 0 detonation with this on my stock bottom 5th gen. (L99).

We have a dyno here just not many able technicians. I was able to ONCE read torque but they messed up the wire that connects to read torque.

My car hit 630rwhp at 8psi. We are now boosting 11psi and with 0 belt slippage. The 700 was a guess just going off the 15-20rwhp per psi.


Do these engines have a strong crankshaft? On my 5th gen when I forge I will only be throwing in pistons and rods because the crank is 1300hp capable. If I were to decide to forge this engine would I need to consider a crankshaft? Or could I get away with pistons and rods?

 

[VENOMOUS1 RACING]

Gotcha bro! Well all I can pretty much say is that the 5th gen sees 0 knock with my meth. It's tuned by Jannetty. Going strong at 5k miles so far boosted with a hell lot of abuse.

Would a better option be set up a nitrous hit and when I open the bottle make sure I have torco or an octane booster around to run through the tank AND run meth? I'm really trying to figure out a way to run nitrous.... Like I said it's impossible to find good gas here and VP goes for $1,000/barrel. My only concern would be if I ran octane booster+meth I would be rich as hell.



30% ethanol alc, 70% water. No I have a seperate meth tank in my trunk, run the line down through a solenoid. I begin injecting at 1psi and full inject at 4psi. We have had 0 detonation with this on my stock bottom 5th gen. (L99).

We have a dyno here just not many able technicians. I was able to ONCE read torque but they messed up the wire that connects to read torque.

My car hit 630rwhp at 8psi. We are now boosting 11psi and with 0 belt slippage. The 700 was a guess just going off the 15-20rwhp per psi.


Do these engines have a strong crankshaft? On my 5th gen when I forge I will only be throwing in pistons and rods because the crank is 1300hp capable. If I were to decide to forge this engine would I need to consider a crankshaft? Or could I get away with pistons and rods?

Lightening the crank would be nice, but otherwise it's strong! It's the rods, pistons and hardware I'd change. Quality ARP fasteners are crucial here! I would just run a separate tank for your N2O fuel and it be 110octane or more UNLEADED!!

 

[Slitherbeast]

Yea. The crank is strong,the rods are decent but the pistons are crap if you abuse them with detonation. They will handle 650 hp with good gas! Nitrous is the ultimate abuser!! Very inconsistent mix in the chamber!

 

[STING]

colder plugs with nitrous and Zex recommends upgrading the fuel pump anything over a 125 shot.

 

[FATJACK]

My truck may die on my next pass down the track BUT it now has 64000 miles and at least 25 bottles of nitrous ran thru it on a bone stock engine. Mostly 150 shot but a bunch of 200 shot. I love it...

 

[Midnight Runner]

But your just not right in the head Mr. Jack. LOL