05 Q/C Exhaust

34bud

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Greetings from Spokane, Gods snow country. I am contemplating removing my cats. Just wondering if anybody knows what kind of power gains I may get with just that and what gain if I install headers too. I took your suggestions and installed magna flo catbacks, sct tuner, KN drop in and 4 inch ram air into stock box. I honor your suggestions. Thanks again, Bud
 
34bud said:
Greetings from Spokane, Gods snow country. I am contemplating removing my cats. Just wondering if anybody knows what kind of power gains I may get with just that and what gain if I install headers too. I took your suggestions and installed magna flo catbacks, sct tuner, KN drop in and 4 inch ram air into stock box. I honor your suggestions. Thanks again, Bud

Greetings from AZ Bud... :D :D :D Welcome to the site... There are a lot of fellas on here with TONS of great info, I read, learn and ask all the time and they always come thru... Now as for your cats, I only removed the back 2 on mine and have a full 3" with the race series magnaflows and I can't say how much of a gain I got but I sure felt it with the whole system done... It is louder tho, which I wanted... But if you remove the cats be sure you take them with you and do not leave them at the exhaust shop... You can sell the cats (if you wish) at your local scrap yard and get a few C notes back in your pocket... Hope this helps and again, WELCOME to the site...:D :D :D Tony...
 
Cat delete is the best mod for the money expect around 35 hp if you delate all four. Save them if you ever have to go back to stock.
 
From my expierence I did not notice any difference in power adding headers. Mine are Bassani's. I hear Long tubes will get you a little more power. But in my opinion add headers for the bling factor. I wouldn't expect any seat of the pants difference with em.
 
Welcome to the club! I deleted all 4 cats ,noticable power increase and a little better on fuel,not much loader in the cab,but louder outside when you got your foot in it! :)
 
I think that if you either do headers or cat delete mods on thier own, then you will not see the total potential gains that you would if you change them both out. Simple exhaust velocity/flow science. You change out the cats you will get power, but the restrictive stock exhaust manifolds are still robbing power from the get go. So in essence you would see a bigger improvement from deleting cats if you had headers vs the gains you see without. Also vise versa, if you add headers with the stock cats still in place, you wont see the optimum gains that you would if you change out the rest of the exhaust. Since velocity and flow will be limited to whatever restrictions are downstream of the headers. You will see optimum gains by doing the entire exhaust. I made a descision to not touch the exhaust untill I could afford to do the whole exhaust at once, the easiest and most cost effective way since you don't have to modify the current exhaust mods to fit the new exhaust mods


I added Belanger long tubes, belanger catless mids, Mopar/Borla exhaust and SCT and noticed a very big difference from stock. Exact power gains, not sure. I started a thread to guesstimate and the consensus was roughly 540-560HP 570TQ at the crank.

Just make sure you have the cat delete option on your SCT, and when you remove your rear o2 sensors, leave them plugged into the wire harness'. You will need to leave them plugged in and just zip tie them up on the top of the two black tranny brace bars on the sides of the bottom of the tranny. If they are not plugged in they will throw a trouble code.

Also have fun with the exhaust manifold to cat pipes flange bolts. They are a beeyotch if the metal sheething around the square nuts are allowed to warp and bend all around the nuts while backing the bolts out. The o2 sensors can give you a hard time aswell.

Also depending on what headers and catless mids you decide to go with, and what exhaust is already on there. You will need to either re-use the small roughly 1.75 foot piece of piping thats after the cat pipes, or have a custom piece made to fit and welded in that will connect the catless mids to the new mufflers. I chose the the latter. Make sure to check about this section when picking your headers and midpipes.

Sorry for the long post, just trying to help someone not run into the problems I did. Good luck and happy modding.

Oh and go with metal OEM gaskets for the new headers.

Oh and you will need to zip tie the tranny cable and starter cable away from the headers. (with Belangers)

Oh and put back the C-shaped heat sheilds that go around the spark plugs, after the re-insert the plug wires. And I don't know why some say to remove the spark plugs, I didn't need to, just the plug wires.


lol
 
ViperPowa said:
I think that if you either do headers or cat delete mods on thier own, then you will not see the total potential gains that you would if you change them both out. Simple exhaust velocity/flow science. You change out the cats you will get power, but the restrictive stock exhaust manifolds are still robbing power from the get go. So in essence you would see a bigger improvement from deleting cats if you had headers vs the gains you see without. Also vise versa, if you add headers with the stock cats still in place, you wont see the optimum gains that you would if you change out the rest of the exhaust. Since velocity and flow will be limited to whatever restrictions are downstream of the headers. You will see optimum gains by doing the entire exhaust. I made a descision to not touch the exhaust untill I could afford to do the whole exhaust at once, the easiest and most cost effective way since you don't have to modify the current exhaust mods to fit the new exhaust mods


I added Belanger long tubes, belanger catless mids, Mopar/Borla exhaust and SCT and noticed a very big difference from stock. Exact power gains, not sure. I started a thread to guesstimate and the consensus was roughly 540-560HP 570TQ at the crank.

Just make sure you have the cat delete option on your SCT, and when you remove your rear o2 sensors, leave them plugged into the wire harness'. You will need to leave them plugged in and just zip tie them up on the top of the two black tranny brace bars on the sides of the bottom of the tranny. If they are not plugged in they will throw a trouble code.

Also have fun with the exhaust manifold to cat pipes flange bolts. They are a beeyotch if the metal sheething around the square nuts are allowed to warp and bend all around the nuts while backing the bolts out. The o2 sensors can give you a hard time aswell.

Also depending on what headers and catless mids you decide to go with, and what exhaust is already on there. You will need to either re-use the small roughly 1.75 foot piece of piping thats after the cat pipes, or have a custom piece made to fit and welded in that will connect the catless mids to the new mufflers. I chose the the latter. Make sure to check about this section when picking your headers and midpipes.

Sorry for the long post, just trying to help someone not run into the problems I did. Good luck and happy modding.

Oh and go with metal OEM gaskets for the new headers.

Oh and you will need to zip tie the tranny cable and starter cable away from the headers. (with Belangers)

Oh and put back the C-shaped heat sheilds that go around the spark plugs, after the re-insert the plug wires. And I don't know why some say to remove the spark plugs, I didn't need to, just the plug wires.


lol

Really.Is that needed.I did not put mine back on after installing my bassani's but have not driven much since then.Anyone else have some input about whether I should re-install them.
:confused:
 
fursale said:
Really.Is that needed.I did not put mine back on after installing my bassani's but have not driven much since then.Anyone else have some input about whether I should re-install them.
:confused:
I put my heat shields back on just to be safe. I bought some spark plug boots too, because I did not know if the heat shields would go back on. Since the heat shields went back on I didn't put the spark plug boots on. So far no problems. I haven't looked lately, but I don't think my fender liners have melted either.

And Viperpowa- maybe that is why I did not notice as much of a gain with the headers. When I deleted my cats there was quite a bit of difference. But I still have a stock cat back. The headers were added about 2 months later. I also dynoed my truck and another truck with very similar mods dynoed that day also. He made 1 horsepower more than me. Granted all engines are different. But if my headers made a difference I would think I would have about 10 hp more than him:dontknow: Although headers have been controversial on our trucks. I like how you did your exhaust all at one time. I didn't go that route mainly because I didn't want it way too loud. Taking baby steps. I would bet I would see a good gain from a aftermarket cat back exhaust system.
 
wyoramsrt-10 said:
I put my heat shields back on just to be safe. I bought some spark plug boots too, because I did not know if the heat shields would go back on. Since the heat shields went back on I didn't put the spark plug boots on. So far no problems. I haven't looked lately, but I don't think my fender liners have melted either.

And Viperpowa- maybe that is why I did not notice as much of a gain with the headers. When I deleted my cats there was quite a bit of difference. But I still have a stock cat back. The headers were added about 2 months later. I also dynoed my truck and another truck with very similar mods dynoed that day also. He made 1 horsepower more than me. Granted all engines are different. But if my headers made a difference I would think I would have about 10 hp more than him:dontknow: Although headers have been controversial on our trucks. I like how you did your exhaust all at one time. I didn't go that route mainly because I didn't want it way too loud. Taking baby steps. I would bet I would see a good gain from a aftermarket cat back exhaust system.


You would think that you would gain more,but last summer there were two trucks the same both had less then 10K on them one bone stock and the other with LT headers,high flow cats and MF catback,SCT tuner and the result were surprising:confused: ,the bone stock was 441 HP and the full exhaust was ONLY 448HP,an expensive 7HP:argh: and they dynoed back to back also.
 
fursale said:
Really.Is that needed.I did not put mine back on after installing my bassani's but have not driven much since then.Anyone else have some input about whether I should re-install them.
:confused:

You should just to be safe, they are to protect the plug wires from heat, pretty easy reinstall especially for the peace of mind that your wires will be safe.


wyoramsrt-10 said:
I put my heat shields back on just to be safe. I bought some spark plug boots too, because I did not know if the heat shields would go back on. Since the heat shields went back on I didn't put the spark plug boots on. So far no problems. I haven't looked lately, but I don't think my fender liners have melted either.

And Viperpowa- maybe that is why I did not notice as much of a gain with the headers. When I deleted my cats there was quite a bit of difference. But I still have a stock cat back. The headers were added about 2 months later. I also dynoed my truck and another truck with very similar mods dynoed that day also. He made 1 horsepower more than me. Granted all engines are different. But if my headers made a difference I would think I would have about 10 hp more than him:dontknow: Although headers have been controversial on our trucks. I like how you did your exhaust all at one time. I didn't go that route mainly because I didn't want it way too loud. Taking baby steps. I would bet I would see a good gain from a aftermarket cat back exhaust system.

The optimum gains will be achieved with full exhaust, I went one step further by having Sean set up my SCT tunes according to the mods I bought from him, I figured everything will work best that way.

No matter where you look, everything on the stock exhaust is too restrictive. This is another reason I had custom pipes fabbed up to connect my catless mids to my new mufflers. If I didn't do that, then there would be a restriction in the middle of the exhaust stream, resulting in the exhaust velocity being hampered from that point on, and holding back the total potential power.

In reguards to your truck, if you remove 2 upstream restrictions, the last restrictions is still holding back power. I would bet you gain a good chunk by replacing the last parts of your exhaust. The big muffler, small diameter piping, then two small last mufflers are robbing your power, garunteed. I chose Mopar/Borla to finish it off because the mufflers are straight through, and the piping has very minimal bends. Less bends = more flow velocity.

Any controversy can be laid to rest by just following simple exhaust velocity dynamics. Just like how theres the most common misconception that you need backpressure. Pipes that are too big, too small, too much bends, and too many diameter fluctuations, cause backpressure which slows down the exhaust velocity and the scavenging effect, which robs power. The faster your exhuast flows, the more power you make. Exhaust flow/velocity works in pulses, in front of the exhaust pulse the pressure is higher, but behind it there is a lower pressure area which helps pull the the next pulse through. That, is the scavenging effect. Pipes that are too big will slow down the exhaust velocity in the lower rpms, becuase the pulses are slower and spread too far apart for any real scavenging. Although in the upper rpms the bigger pipes will flow the high exhaust pulses from WOT better, your still loosing power down low and midrange. Pipes that are too small, will flow better in the low rpm's, because they keep the exhaust pulses from getting too far apart from eachother, but quickly become too restrictive when your WOT because the high rpm's exhaust pulses can't get out quick enough. In essence they are too bunched up and scavenging can't take place. So you have to find what diameter piping will flow best through out the most rpm range, and/or in regaurds to where in the rpm range you want to make more power. You get a good fast velocity exhaust set-up going, it could even help pull the intake charge through while in overlap. Some headers can also be better than one another if merged correctly in regaurds to firing order. If one chamber fires, and its primary runner is merged to the next firing chambers primary runner, then the first exhaust pulse will create a low pressure area infront of the next pulse, helping pull that pulse through. So just the way that the runners are merged can make one header superior to the next.

I'm sure allot here know all this already, but I just wanted to say it because it makes my dumbass feel semi-smart.

Oh and it won't be too loud at all with headers, no cats, and better exhaust. It's loud don't get me wrong, it makes the stock exhaust sound whisper quiet, but headers and open catless mids is what I call loud. On startup it will scare that crap outa anyone standing outside the truck who is not ready for it. I made my 300 pound friend jump like someone lit a sparkler bomb next to him. You need to talk with raised voices inside the cab while just cruising, and yell to someone outside the truck a few feet away just to comunicate at idle.

Heres a quick clip of what it sounds like on startup, watch the terri cloths I forgot to take out of the mids, the blue one hits the frame before falling, but the yellow one gives you an idea of the exhaust flow from Belangers and open mids just on startup. This cam also doesn't do the sound justice.


 

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