45acp “Krissâ€￾ exceeds all SMGs

Begood said:
That's why I have always like the .45 ACP.

Bill.
Funny when considering the Canadians ( in conjunction with most major law enforcement agencies world wide, including Interpol) studied documented shootings and the states showed both 9mm and 45 had a 70% incapacitation rate on the first shot. Also the 9mm had a much longer effective range, better penetration, and a person could carry more than twice as much ammo using the 9mm. 500 rounds of 45 weighs more than twice that of 1000 rnd's of 9mm.
To me a 45 is just another Hillbilly round unless you are shooting bowling pins at 50 ft.
 
9MM are only good for up close and personal talks with insurgents. Cool design. I bet Blackwater is protyping it in the field for them.
 
iraqivet01 said:
9MM are only good for up close and personal talks with insurgents. Cool design. I bet Blackwater is protyping it in the field for them.
45's fall in the same catagory and I sure hate packing that damned ammo around ( 45 is good for sub sonic though) If I have to pack that wieght ,give me a .308 it beats the hell out of both.
 
In the military, the pistol is a sidearm and not the primary weapon which is normally a long arm of some type/configuration, i.e. M4, G36, SAW, etc.

In law enforcement, the opposite is true, with exception of the extremely small percentage of time that officers spend in SWAT related duties where they typically have a long-arm as their primary.

That being said, if I'm carrying a shoulder fired weapon; it's not gonna have a pistol cartridge (either .45ACP or 9mm), and will be a .223 or 6.8 or .308.

Shoulder fired pistols (that what I call submachine guns) have lost a tremendous degree of popularity in law enforcement of late as most departments have figured out that despite it's "tacticool" and sexiness of the MP-5 for example, Bruce Willis' weapon of choice in all those cool Die Hard movies, the terminal ballistics of a pistol cartridge absolutely pale in comparison to rifle cartridges. Carbines have equal or better specifications than SMGs when it comes to overall length, weight, etc. and the over-penetration concerns of rifle caliber weapons in an urban environment have long been dispelled as false (ammo type dependent; ball is bad in an urban environment, jacketed soft point is good)...

So when real, no shit operators, both in the military and civilian law enforcement do choose a caliber for their sidearm, what is it normally? .45ACP, period. LA SWAT, CAG, FBI HRT, etc., etc., etc., all rely on the venerable .45ACP in a 1911 configuration for a reason.
 
Ronin said:
In the military, the pistol is a sidearm and not the primary weapon which is normally a long arm of some type/configuration, i.e. M4, G36, SAW, etc.

In law enforcement, the opposite is true, with exception of the extremely small percentage of time that officers spend in SWAT related duties where they typically have a long-arm as their primary.

That being said, if I'm carrying a shoulder fired weapon; it's not gonna have a pistol cartridge (either .45ACP or 9mm), and will be a .223 or 6.8 or .308.

Shoulder fired pistols (that what I call submachine guns) have lost a tremendous degree of popularity in law enforcement of late as most departments have figured out that despite it's "tacticool" and sexiness of the MP-5 for example, Bruce Willis' weapon of choice in all those cool Die Hard movies, the terminal ballistics of a pistol cartridge absolutely pale in comparison to rifle cartridges. Carbines have equal or better specifications than SMGs when it comes to overall length, weight, etc. and the over-penetration concerns of rifle caliber weapons in an urban environment have long been dispelled as false (ammo type dependent; ball is bad in an urban environment, jacketed soft point is good)...

So when real, no shit operators, both in the military and civilian law enforcement do choose a caliber for their sidearm, what is it normally? .45ACP, period. LA SWAT, CAG, FBI HRT, etc., etc., etc., all rely on the venerable .45ACP in a 1911 configuration for a reason.


So your saying they need to make a 44magnum "Kriss" :D

But yea about the 45acp

http://www.sightm1911.com/Care/45acp.htm Great article
“The man who pushed the Army into adopting the .45 caliber cartridge was Gen. John T. Thompson, the father of the Thompson submachine gun and a member of the Army Ordnance Board during the time that the M1911 pistol was being developed by John Browning and Colt. After the disastrous showing of the Army's .38 Long Colt pistols in the Philippines, Gen. Thompson was committed to the idea that the Army should be packing a real man-stopper in its handguns, a big .45 caliber bullet.”
 

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