sleeper
Full Access Member
The auction starts today. Its on Speed channel starting at 4pm pacific.
Barrett-Jackson Auction
- Thread starter sleeper
- Start date
505'sFastestViper.
Full Access Member
bump on a good post
:dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow:K-80-123 said:
505'sFastestViper.
Full Access Member
:dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: thats 7Brat said:
sleeper
Full Access Member
Its on right now.K-80-123 said:
:dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: thats eight.505'sFastestViper. said:
ohiosrt10
Full Access Member
Thanks! Love that show...
wheredwhogo?
Full Access Member
heres something interested on the subject matter...long read, but interesting.
This was forwarded to me by a buddy in the business. Not sure of the validity, but it definitely makes you wonder....
January 27th, 2007 by fourwheeldrift
As a collector car journalist, I have been watching the Barrett-Jackson
auction for years. For the last five or so years, it has been very
apparent that the Scottsdale auction is at best a bastion of greed and
manipulation...and at worse, all-out fraud.
I've discussed B-J with collectors, dealers and enthusiasts, many of
whom would be considered "insiders," meaning they've bought and sold
cars at B-J and other auctions, or are well-known in the collector car
hobby. For some reason, it is this year that people are all finally
grumbling and passing rumors in unison.
The bottom line is that Craig Jackson and the B-J company have really
screwed themselves this year. Their contracts specifically promise every
car three minutes on the stand. Due to ego and greed, they expanded the
Scottsdale '07 auction to the point they could not provide this, plus
they had the audacity to do it on live television.
A well-known former head judge in the Ford Thunderbird circles was one
of the sellers who had his car short-timed. He has already filed a law
suit against B-J, and this is already headed towards class-action status.
According to this judge and other sources, it appears Barrett-Jackson
was operating a bit on the same level as an evangelical healing show.
They had assistants milling around asking what specific sellers thought
their cars would bring. Armed with this information at the control desk,
if a lot passed the value at which a seller indicated he'd be happy, the
car would be rushed off and the gavel would fall - even if bidding was
still very much alive.
Because the event was televised on live television via the Speed TV
network, the plaintiff(s) now have video/audio proof that buyers were
signaling increased bids before the three-minute marks, but were denied
by a too-fast last call and hammer.
While this all might cause Barrett-Jackson to have to pay money to
sellers in the form of a judgment or settlement, it is something else
that might land Craig Jackson in jail.
It is no secret that Barrett-Jackson owns many cars that are run through
the auction - it was something I suspected many, many years ago. This
was proven when they started maintaining a showroom of cars in Arizona.
This is not illegal, but stay with me.
I've always suspected that the cars owned by Craig Jackson and the B-J
company were often driven up by shill bidders working for the company.
Essentially, the strategy works in the sense that ever since the auction
focus moved from classics like Packards and Duesenbergs to muscle cars,
B-J has been able to shill, say a Hemi Cuda or mid-year Corvette 427
they own, which causes the value of the 10 other identical cars to
increase. They wind up "buying" their own car back, but the others go on
to regular buyers, who now are paying higher because of the perception
the market has moved up.
This suspicion has been validated by auction attendees this year that
witnessed cars sold at auction headed in trailers back to B-J's
warehouse. The lawsuit allegedly points out that these cars also spent
significantly more time on the block than others.
If this isn't all interesting enough, during this year's auction, fellow
collector car journalist, Keith Martin of Sports Car Market, was booted
from the Westworld premises and his media credentials revoked for
voicing loud, specific concern regarding the event while sitting in the
media room. Barrett-Jackson accused Keith Martin of "holding court" and
attempting to send VIPs and journalists to the competing RM and Russo
and Steele auction events. Among the alleged opinions included that the
cars at B-J were of inferior quality (and had quality misrepresented,)
as well as that the bidders were significantly over-bidding cars, which
shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who has witnessed people paying
six figures for cars they could have bought for under $50,000 any other
day of the year!!!
This is somewhat of an interesting twist. Keith Martin's publication has
marketed the B-J events and has helped fuel its popularity. Keith is
definitely one of the great "insiders" of the hobby, and has been a
friend to Craig Jackson. In past years, Keith nor his publication have
been critical of the goings-on and rumors, while other collector car
journalists have been outwardly screaming that something stunk.
It makes sense, since Sports Car Market really only tracks the value of
vehicles and other items sold at auction, rather than via private sales
(which really has skewed SCM's values for years!) So without kissing-ass
to B-J, Keith would have missed insider info on the largest events
covered by his mag. So we can only guess that Keith and Craig had a
falling out of some type.
I applaud Keith for turning the corner on his view of B-J, but I'm with
others I've talked to about this: I hate to say this about a colleague,
but I felt his behavior was a bit unprofessional. As journalists, it is
our responsibility to write what we think, but going to the show for
years, then promoting RM and Russo+Steele while at Westworld is somewhat
unprofessional. I agree that Keith, a true hobbyist who started out by
writing an Alfa Romeo newsletter, was for a long time too much a part of
the "circus" about which he finally rejected, and that SCM has to a
significant degree helped to fuel misinformation and a house of cards
regarding specific auction prices and bidding behavior. Keith, by all
accounts, is a really good guy -- an enthusiast, who maybe just needed
to take a step back and a big breath and reacquaint himself with those
outside of the very insulated collector car "in crowd" -- and spend time
with some car people who are not trying to exploit the collectors. There
are plenty of guys who have dug themselves too deep into this little
crowd, and are no longer fun to deal with, because they've put personal
greed well ahead of the cars and the collectors. Keith will rebound --
he has a great internal staff of really fantastic people, who hopefully
will help him return to his roots.
That being said... While I've never met him, the buzz among those in the
hobby -- both collectors and journalists, is that Craig Jackson is quite
arrogant, so don't expect many to come to his rescue. He inherited his
father's company, and has fueled B-J's growth with a combination of
intelligence, drive, ego, and greed. While there is nothing wrong with
that combination, when it results in unethical and possibly illegal
activities, that's inexcusable.
Like many surrounding the hobby, I will be watching the events unfold.
Will the Westworld tents come down like a house of cards, or will
everything just go away with an exchange of a little money? It's hard to
predict. Craig Jackson has become a very powerful man, and his company
has pumped billions of dollars into the Arizona economy over the years.
This all being said, there's no doubt that Barrett-Jackson "jumped the
shark" this year. Unlike when Fonzi did it, Craig Jackson drove his
allegedly shill-bid Hemicudas over the tank and down a ramp that could
lead to six years in a minimum security prison-issued orange jumpsuit.
If that's the case, maybe he can get Sports Car Market in the slammer to
keep-up on Russo and Steele, RM and Kruse auction results.
This was forwarded to me by a buddy in the business. Not sure of the validity, but it definitely makes you wonder....
January 27th, 2007 by fourwheeldrift
As a collector car journalist, I have been watching the Barrett-Jackson
auction for years. For the last five or so years, it has been very
apparent that the Scottsdale auction is at best a bastion of greed and
manipulation...and at worse, all-out fraud.
I've discussed B-J with collectors, dealers and enthusiasts, many of
whom would be considered "insiders," meaning they've bought and sold
cars at B-J and other auctions, or are well-known in the collector car
hobby. For some reason, it is this year that people are all finally
grumbling and passing rumors in unison.
The bottom line is that Craig Jackson and the B-J company have really
screwed themselves this year. Their contracts specifically promise every
car three minutes on the stand. Due to ego and greed, they expanded the
Scottsdale '07 auction to the point they could not provide this, plus
they had the audacity to do it on live television.
A well-known former head judge in the Ford Thunderbird circles was one
of the sellers who had his car short-timed. He has already filed a law
suit against B-J, and this is already headed towards class-action status.
According to this judge and other sources, it appears Barrett-Jackson
was operating a bit on the same level as an evangelical healing show.
They had assistants milling around asking what specific sellers thought
their cars would bring. Armed with this information at the control desk,
if a lot passed the value at which a seller indicated he'd be happy, the
car would be rushed off and the gavel would fall - even if bidding was
still very much alive.
Because the event was televised on live television via the Speed TV
network, the plaintiff(s) now have video/audio proof that buyers were
signaling increased bids before the three-minute marks, but were denied
by a too-fast last call and hammer.
While this all might cause Barrett-Jackson to have to pay money to
sellers in the form of a judgment or settlement, it is something else
that might land Craig Jackson in jail.
It is no secret that Barrett-Jackson owns many cars that are run through
the auction - it was something I suspected many, many years ago. This
was proven when they started maintaining a showroom of cars in Arizona.
This is not illegal, but stay with me.
I've always suspected that the cars owned by Craig Jackson and the B-J
company were often driven up by shill bidders working for the company.
Essentially, the strategy works in the sense that ever since the auction
focus moved from classics like Packards and Duesenbergs to muscle cars,
B-J has been able to shill, say a Hemi Cuda or mid-year Corvette 427
they own, which causes the value of the 10 other identical cars to
increase. They wind up "buying" their own car back, but the others go on
to regular buyers, who now are paying higher because of the perception
the market has moved up.
This suspicion has been validated by auction attendees this year that
witnessed cars sold at auction headed in trailers back to B-J's
warehouse. The lawsuit allegedly points out that these cars also spent
significantly more time on the block than others.
If this isn't all interesting enough, during this year's auction, fellow
collector car journalist, Keith Martin of Sports Car Market, was booted
from the Westworld premises and his media credentials revoked for
voicing loud, specific concern regarding the event while sitting in the
media room. Barrett-Jackson accused Keith Martin of "holding court" and
attempting to send VIPs and journalists to the competing RM and Russo
and Steele auction events. Among the alleged opinions included that the
cars at B-J were of inferior quality (and had quality misrepresented,)
as well as that the bidders were significantly over-bidding cars, which
shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who has witnessed people paying
six figures for cars they could have bought for under $50,000 any other
day of the year!!!
This is somewhat of an interesting twist. Keith Martin's publication has
marketed the B-J events and has helped fuel its popularity. Keith is
definitely one of the great "insiders" of the hobby, and has been a
friend to Craig Jackson. In past years, Keith nor his publication have
been critical of the goings-on and rumors, while other collector car
journalists have been outwardly screaming that something stunk.
It makes sense, since Sports Car Market really only tracks the value of
vehicles and other items sold at auction, rather than via private sales
(which really has skewed SCM's values for years!) So without kissing-ass
to B-J, Keith would have missed insider info on the largest events
covered by his mag. So we can only guess that Keith and Craig had a
falling out of some type.
I applaud Keith for turning the corner on his view of B-J, but I'm with
others I've talked to about this: I hate to say this about a colleague,
but I felt his behavior was a bit unprofessional. As journalists, it is
our responsibility to write what we think, but going to the show for
years, then promoting RM and Russo+Steele while at Westworld is somewhat
unprofessional. I agree that Keith, a true hobbyist who started out by
writing an Alfa Romeo newsletter, was for a long time too much a part of
the "circus" about which he finally rejected, and that SCM has to a
significant degree helped to fuel misinformation and a house of cards
regarding specific auction prices and bidding behavior. Keith, by all
accounts, is a really good guy -- an enthusiast, who maybe just needed
to take a step back and a big breath and reacquaint himself with those
outside of the very insulated collector car "in crowd" -- and spend time
with some car people who are not trying to exploit the collectors. There
are plenty of guys who have dug themselves too deep into this little
crowd, and are no longer fun to deal with, because they've put personal
greed well ahead of the cars and the collectors. Keith will rebound --
he has a great internal staff of really fantastic people, who hopefully
will help him return to his roots.
That being said... While I've never met him, the buzz among those in the
hobby -- both collectors and journalists, is that Craig Jackson is quite
arrogant, so don't expect many to come to his rescue. He inherited his
father's company, and has fueled B-J's growth with a combination of
intelligence, drive, ego, and greed. While there is nothing wrong with
that combination, when it results in unethical and possibly illegal
activities, that's inexcusable.
Like many surrounding the hobby, I will be watching the events unfold.
Will the Westworld tents come down like a house of cards, or will
everything just go away with an exchange of a little money? It's hard to
predict. Craig Jackson has become a very powerful man, and his company
has pumped billions of dollars into the Arizona economy over the years.
This all being said, there's no doubt that Barrett-Jackson "jumped the
shark" this year. Unlike when Fonzi did it, Craig Jackson drove his
allegedly shill-bid Hemicudas over the tank and down a ramp that could
lead to six years in a minimum security prison-issued orange jumpsuit.
If that's the case, maybe he can get Sports Car Market in the slammer to
keep-up on Russo and Steele, RM and Kruse auction results.
newmexicoviper
Full Access Member
Ill be there on Friday.
sleeper
Full Access Member
This is bull shit started because a seller of 60's mopar ramcharger drag car wanted more for his car. He got 300,000 for it and wanted more. The guy went as far as to report it stolen to the police. The seller even locked the wheels together so no one could move it. B-J told the whole story on Speed today, Life on the Block show. B-J is sueing the seller. They also showed there contract. It does not state that there is a 3 min or more time frame on the block. The seller is cry baby. The crap that has been posted to blogs is just BS.
i have bought 2 cars from b-j and have gotten good deals on both.....i have seen a lot of cars that are not on tv that sell below market.....
Speed channel had a whole show dedicated to the 3 minute promise issue. They showed the contract and no where did it state 3 minutes on the stage. It got so bad that BJ sued those people and won in court. SOmetimes a car does not bring what the seller thinks it is worth and in a no reserve auction there is nothing that can be done about it short of the seller buying it himself and paying the commision.
The commissions are very high and when I think that about 20% is floating over these cars that drive up values, a person at home with a similar year vehicle immediately says their car is worth $300000!!!! TOO....I think I heard that this year BJ is only allowing cars WITHOUT RESERVES...they are trying to make the statement that they will deliver the best price.....the other thing happens with the older type reserve auctions, BJ used to do deals with sellers that they knew and would bring multiple cars to the auction, as the price got close to their reserve, BJ would make deals to let the seller forgo the listing fees...etc...
wheredwhogo? said:
Very interesting. It wouldnt surprise me if there is some truth in there.
My bro was at Westworld on Sunday. They call it family day or something. He said the new Cuda was there as well as the new zr1 vette.
patrick
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