Do we have a strategy

FSTJACK

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Do We Have a Strategy in the War?
Yes, and a multifaceted one, at that.

By Victor Davis Hanson

It is often said that the United States has neither a long-term strategy in this larger war against terror nor an immediate one in Iraq.
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Both are unfair charges, since we seem to have both.

Against the terrorists, our strategy is a six-pronged approach:

1. Beef up security to such a degree at home that it would require far more training and expertise to penetrate our defenses than what was necessary for the September 11 attacks;

2. Arrest, imprison, and kill enough Islamic terrorists in the United States and abroad to make it nearly impossible for them to carry off another September 11-like attack;

3. Take out the worst authoritarian regimes in the Middle East that sponsored terrorism and attacked their neighbors, while pressuring others like a Saudi Arabia and Egypt to cease funding terrorists;

4. Support the creation of democracies in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Lebanon to offer Muslims choices other than autocracy or Islamic radicalism, while trying to encourage reform in the Middle East at large;

5. Wage a worldwide war of ideas that frames the struggle as the freedom of the individual, liberal values, and Western economic prosperity against the Dark-Age nihilism of the world of the caliphate and Sharia law;

6. Hope that while our enemies’ world is static, ours is not. In other words, while they endlessly redefine the 7th century, we use reason and science to wean us off dependency on their oil, seek sophisticated missile-defense systems, and hope instant global communications (which also facilitate their televised beheadings) can undermine their entire hierarchical society of imams and patriarchs.

Whatever the recent criticisms of George Bush or the difficulties in Iraq, we haven’t had another attack at home. In the last five years, we have killed and jailed tens of thousands of jihadists and replaced the Taliban and the Hussein regimes with struggling democracies — at a cost of fewer lives than were lost on the first day of this war.

But what of our enemies’ present strategy?

Since they cannot defeat Western forces directly, nor offer anyone the prosperity or freedom of the West, they have been reduced to essentially two approaches: first, on the frontlines, make life miserable for all Muslim civilians and third parties to this war, so that, in their exasperation, our newfound democratic friends in Kabul and Baghdad might ask us to give up, and leave things as they once were before the latest round of violence.

Second, recycle the arguments of global critics to demoralize the Western public into thinking that their own governments are worse than the radical Islamists, and hence they should quit the struggle.

So, on the front lines in Afghanistan and Iraq, the jihadists hope to blow up enough electrical transformers, schools, water plants, and police stations, along with killing enough school teachers, policemen, government officials, and women and children, that the population at large will blame the chaos on the war in general. By extension, they will then conclude that, if the Americans just left, calm at least would return under the Taliban or some autocratic theocrat in Iraq.

Our allies in places like Jordan, Lebanon, the Gulf, or in Iraq in theory enjoy the opportunities that globalization has brought, and the chance for Western-style health care, science, and freedom. But emotionally, they recognize that such appetites also represent a desire for something foreign, something antithetical to traditional Arab culture and conservative Islam.

So while their heads tell them to ally with the West, their hearts are not averse to seeing us take an occasional fall. Torn as they are between reason and emotion, even most “moderates†in the Middle East simply wait to see who is going to win — George Bush or his multifarious enemies.

If the jihadists prove ascendant, then the larger humiliation of the West will serve to energize millions in the Middle East to recognize the successes of Islamism, which, in turn, might in some fashion come to power in the Gulf. Such theocracies, as we see in the ambitions of present-day Iran, could then soon use the petro-wealth of the Middle East to acquire nuclear weapons, destroy Israel, and force concessions from the West.

Secondly, our enemies likewise see a war of ideas. In the infomercials of bin Laden and Zawahiri, as well as other Islamists who use the Middle East media, both the Arab and Western world are reminded of America’s sins. And our errors are not just fighting Muslims in Afghanistan or Iraq, or supporting Israel, but include, according to the al Qaeda communiqués, everything from not signing the Kyoto accords to the lack of campaign finance reform, East Timor, the Patriot Act, Halliburton, and the usual generic charges of racism and imperialism.

That these ostensibly leftist critiques are mouthed by Middle East fascists, and are made from the shamelessly recycled material of a Michael Moore or a Noam Chomsky, matters little, since the aim is not really conversion of Westerners to Islam, but an insidious weakening of the Western spirit of resistance.

We already see this desperation in Europe, where novelists, cartoonists, opera producers, and film makers censor themselves or go into hiding, either in fear of real harm or, equally likely, in worry that they might appear apostates from the religion of multiculturalism. Ask the overseers of St. Andrews University in Scotland or the Council on Foreign Relations why they welcomed a former high official from the Iranian theocracy that kills and brutalizes its opponents, and which is seeking nuclear weapons in part to fulfill past promises to wipe out Israel.

As the United States and the Islamic fascists each respectively pursue their own strategies, the constituencies that matter — the Western and Middle Eastern publics — watch the battlefield, adjusting their outlooks to the perceived victory or defeat of either side. When we are doing well, a Bob Woodward writes Bush at War rather than State of Denial, a Chris Matthews sputters that “We are all neoconservatives now,†and enemies in Syria and Iran show real apprehension. But when we seem stalled, suddenly Democratic senators compare our soldiers to Nazis and worse, Michael Moore and Cindy Sheehan start appearing with mainstream Democrats, and Hezbollah’s Nasrallah comes out of hiding to brag of his hatred of the U.S.

So the uncertainty is not whether the United States has a sound strategy in this long struggle against savage enemies of the Dark Ages — we have many wise ones — but rather whether we still have the will or the desire to see the war through to the bitter end.

— Victor Davis Hanson is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution. He is the author, most recently, of A War Like No Other. How the Athenians and Spartans Fought the Peloponnesian War.
 
Good post Jack.

Whenever I am asked how I feel about the war and wether or not it's worth it, I always respond with 1 simple fact. We have not been attacked on our soil again since 9/11. So I would say it's going quite well. ;)
 
ViperTruck2933 said:
Good post Jack.

Whenever I am asked how I feel about the war and wether or not it's worth it, I always respond with 1 simple fact. We have not been attacked on our soil again since 9/11. So I would say it's going quite well. ;)

Thats my simple response as well...although I've never been asked. Is it going quite well...HMMMM
 
Personally, I think the Iraqi invasion was a mistake. Now before everybody gets their balls in an uproar let me explain my position on it.

The timing was not good at all. We still had (and still have) troops on the ground in Afganistan trying to root out the Taliban and al-Queda. That at the time should have been our one concern. We really do not have the resources to wage war on too many different fronts. What happens when we do is we get bogged down, just as we are now. Don't get me wrong, Saddam is a complete asshole, but he should not have been our main priority at that time.

Unfortunatly this helped many of the people we were looking for in Afganistan to escape into Pakistan. Which is probably where we should have gone next, instead of Iraq. I really think that Iraq is pretty far down the list as far as priorities go. I would certainly put both N. Korea and Iran higher on that list. Quite simply, they are both much larger threats to our security.

Now, I don't believe that we went in to Iraq for the oil, as many naysayers love to trot out. In fact, I honestly feel it is worse than that. This was a personal agenda, set forth by our Commander in Chief. I doubt that I will ever be convinced otherwise. He ignored any intelligence that didn't fit his agenda. I am not a liberal Bush basher, but in this instance I feel he failed us all.

With that all said, I really believe that the military (and by that I mean the Pentagon, not the guys on the ground) need to get their shit together and come up with a clear and concise plan to finish the job. We cannot keep our troops in that country indefinitly, it does us no good and it does the Iraqi people no good.
 
OCBob said:
Personally, I think the Iraqi invasion was a mistake. Now before everybody gets their balls in an uproar let me explain my position on it.

The timing was not good at all. We still had (and still have) troops on the ground in Afganistan trying to root out the Taliban and al-Queda. That at the time should have been our one concern. We really do not have the resources to wage war on too many different fronts. What happens when we do is we get bogged down, just as we are now. Don't get me wrong, Saddam is a complete asshole, but he should not have been our main priority at that time.

Unfortunatly this helped many of the people we were looking for in Afganistan to escape into Pakistan. Which is probably where we should have gone next, instead of Iraq. I really think that Iraq is pretty far down the list as far as priorities go. I would certainly put both N. Korea and Iran higher on that list. Quite simply, they are both much larger threats to our security.

Now, I don't believe that we went in to Iraq for the oil, as many naysayers love to trot out. In fact, I honestly feel it is worse than that. This was a personal agenda, set forth by our Commander in Chief. I doubt that I will ever be convinced otherwise. He ignored any intelligence that didn't fit his agenda. I am not a liberal Bush basher, but in this instance I feel he failed us all.

With that all said, I really believe that the military (and by that I mean the Pentagon, not the guys on the ground) need to get their shit together and come up with a clear and concise plan to finish the job. We cannot keep our troops in that country indefinitly, it does us no good and it does the Iraqi people no good.

I agree with Bob to a point......

I believe that we're trying to win a ground war against an enemy who has more experience with this type of fighting and no respect for human life. This makes it "their war". We're fighting a big war with lots of troops and material. They hide in a hole 'til we roll by and one of their guys kills 10-20 of ours. These little pricks have been fighting a guerilla war since our forefathers were in Europe 400 years ago.

Their motto is "1000 throats can be slit in one night by a running man".

I'm no military tactician..... I didn't go the War College at West Point or Annapolis.

But we should have allowed our troops the materials and tactics to win with overwhelming force and weapons from the start. This thing would be over by now. But the liberals have pressured Washington (read Bush et al) into a "paddy cake" war that has become a disgrace to the world.

Our fighting forces deserve a strategy for victory, not one of political appeasement.

Let 'em win and bring 'em home.... It's no wonder that liberals are likening this war to Viet Nam. It's people like Hillary fkn Clinton who despise the military who are actually pushing Bush's buttons behind the scenes.

"I'll pass your pork bill if you ostensibly support this agenda of mine"... That's how Washington plays the game. Meanwhile our kids are dying at the hands of these fkn demons in filthy pajamas.

Chesty Puller's ghost for president.

SD
 
Sorry folks,

my thoughts my be a little harsh.

This is not WWII, it's not country vs country, It's fanatic's against civilization. There is no clear target, otherwise we would have carpet bombed them back to the stone age years ago. How do you really fight against a group of people who are willing to kill there brothers and sisters as part of their fight.

Bush did not run for office to start a war.

Bush would have went down in history as the most forgotten president ever elected. Untill.....9/11

To think we can do nothing and all will be ok is just foolish.

We have a simple choice. Face the issue head on or wait and wonder. I think we all remember the comercial. Do you want to pay me now or pay me later. Thats how I feel obout whats going on. our government had a choice to act on what was known at the time or wait and wonder. People can throw at me till the end of time that not all the facts ended up being truthful. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Again, our government acted on what was known at the time. To hell with politicl parties, their all a bunch of cry babies, from the President all the way down to town counsel. 20/20 vision does not exist in the present and never will. People need to get past that point.

Hell gang, we can't even deal with the minor problems (simple Shit) that occurs on this web site alone, not even considering dealing with ekool and putting that issue to bed once and for all. Now put that in a worldwide arena, and there is at least one guy out there that I know has all the answers, i don't.

But if you think it was bad timing, let me pass on a little insight my grandfather told me. There is never good timing for war, it's always bad, for someone.

People look at the struggling government of Iraq and are quick to point out how it has all failed. After WWII, it took a good 10 years for Japan to get back on its feet and they didn't have a bunch of idiots running through the streets looking for 72 virgins.

So before you all sit there and hack at the keyboard and spout your lack of information opinion based on information that is now public without the knowledge of the information that is still secret for obvious reasons... What would you have done.

Well.......

So now that I've pissed off half of you and made the rest of you think I'm just an imature prick.

I'm not gone....

I'm not going to take my keyboard and go somewhere else.

But I can sleep at nite knowing that our boys and girls in uniform are out there doing what they can.

Jeff
 
MYuGiOh Motorsports said:
To think we can do nothing and all will be ok is just foolish.


But if you think it was bad timing, let me pass on a little insight my grandfather told me. There is never good timing for war, it's always bad, for someone.
Never said we should sit back and do nothing, but that is exactly what we are doing in regards to both Iran and N. Korea. Diplomacy will not work in either of those cases, we had a better chance of diplomacy working in Iraq.

The reason I said the timing was wrong is simply this: by adding a second front to this war without the proper resources or planning we put the men and women actually fighting the war in more danger than necessary.

I speak from experience, spent some time in the Middle East with a rifle in my hand long ago, back when Iraq was our ally.
 
OCBob said:
we had a better chance of diplomacy working in Iraq.
:confused: It didn't work for 12 YEARS, as I recall it.....:dontknow:
OCBob said:
The reason I said the timing was wrong is simply this: by adding a second front to this war without the proper resources or planning we put the men and women actually fighting the war in more danger than necessary.
The only time we could have used more troops in Afganistan was when OBL was in Tora Bora in 2002....that was before the invasion of Iraq. Not a factor in that situation.

Invading Pakistan is not and was never an option. They have nukes AND the ability to use them. Their assistance in apprehending MANY of OBLs top aids has been outstanding.

Granted, we need them to step up and help with OBL too. I'll concede that point.;)
 
OCBob said:
Never said we should sit back and do nothing, but that is exactly what we are doing in regards to both Iran and N. Korea. Diplomacy will not work in either of those cases, we had a better chance of diplomacy working in Iraq.

The reason I said the timing was wrong is simply this: by adding a second front to this war without the proper resources or planning we put the men and women actually fighting the war in more danger than necessary.

I speak from experience, spent some time in the Middle East with a rifle in my hand long ago, back when Iraq was our ally.


Just for the Record....My opinion is not the opinion of everyone, it's just mine.

I agree with you on Iran and N. Korea, but I also believe they are baiting us to act alone.

I have no disagreement on the timing issue, I'll stick to grampa's thought

I'm a youngster, Gulf War is my only experience and not with a rifle in hand but a wrench. BTW, we had a 100% return of our aircraft. I am still very proud to have served and even more proud our unit all came back.

I enjoy differing points of view. I learn by them.

I thank you for your insight

Jeff
 
ViperTruck2933 said:
:confused: It didn't work for 12 YEARS, as I recall it.....:dontknow:
And it sure as hell hasn't worked in Iran for close to 30 years now. Iran is and has been a much larger threat than Iraq. That was my point. We have to pick and choose our battles, I believe the choice to go to Iraq was not the best choice to preserve our security.

And if Pakistan were truly cooperating with us they would have welcomed US troops into their border regions and let us continue with the mission of hunting down those that attacked us.
 
Silent D said:
I agree with Bob to a point......

I believe that we're trying to win a ground war against an enemy who has more experience with this type of fighting and no respect for human life. This makes it "their war". We're fighting a big war with lots of troops and material. They hide in a hole 'til we roll by and one of their guys kills 10-20 of ours. These little pricks have been fighting a guerilla war since our forefathers were in Europe 400 years ago.

Their motto is "1000 throats can be slit in one night by a running man".

I'm no military tactician..... I didn't go the War College at West Point or Annapolis.

But we should have allowed our troops the materials and tactics to win with overwhelming force and weapons from the start. This thing would be over by now. But the liberals have pressured Washington (read Bush et al) into a "paddy cake" war that has become a disgrace to the world.

Our fighting forces deserve a strategy for victory, not one of political appeasement.

Let 'em win and bring 'em home.... It's no wonder that liberals are likening this war to Viet Nam. It's people like Hillary fkn Clinton who despise the military who are actually pushing Bush's buttons behind the scenes.

"I'll pass your pork bill if you ostensibly support this agenda of mine"... That's how Washington plays the game. Meanwhile our kids are dying at the hands of these fkn demons in filthy pajamas.

Chesty Puller's ghost for president.

SD

I didn't know you were a Marine!! Good for you, sorry for using your entire post but I'm still stupid with computers...as far as everything all of you have posted on this thread, I agree and disagree. Is Bush wrong for Iraq, maybe, do I love him, YES! He has been the best thing to happen to us (the military) since Reagan and try to tell me differently. Are all Muslims bad? NO! But the one's we're fighting are and even though it looks bad now and probably will for the near future, I think it will turn out okay and I know from first hand experience that no one in the military wants to let y'all down. Even the pencil pushers in the Pentagon. I'm not telling you to go with the flow...I'm just saying "Rome wasn't built in a day."! Remember this, those in the countries surrounding the countries we're in have no choice but to kind of lay back in the cut, we are a superpower and everybody here would feel uncomfortable knowing that an enormous force that could take you over if they truly wanted to was right next door. Are we over extended, maybe, but we (the military) have always been known for doing more with less as long as the general public doesn't capitulate. By the way, I loved the initial post on this thread!!!! You guys amaze me everyday with your forward thinking and awesome insight into other things besides trucks!!!!:rock: :rock: :rock:
 
KRAZYSRT10 said:
I didn't know you were a Marine!! Good for you, sorry for using your entire post but I'm still stupid with computers...


Once you quote someone you can just delete the words that you don't want to quote. It is just text with the command prompts on the end.
 
OCBob said:
And it sure as hell hasn't worked in Iran for close to 30 years now. Iran is and has been a much larger threat than Iraq. That was my point. We have to pick and choose our battles, I believe the choice to go to Iraq was not the best choice to preserve our security.

And if Pakistan were truly cooperating with us they would have welcomed US troops into their border regions and let us continue with the mission of hunting down those that attacked us.
Valid points Bob. :) Can't argue with you on those. Other than to say I think Iraq has proven to be a MUCH better battleground (for us) than fighting them here on our soil. ;)
 

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