Fit95
Full Access Member
TREKER said:
I thought that McCain could have been released two years earlier if he wanted to but he wouldn't leave without his men. That says a lot - unless I have bad info. If someone knows , share please.
Finally! OBAMA Tries to EXPLAIN!!!
- Thread starter supercar1of1
- Start date
I thought that McCain could have been released two years earlier if he wanted to but he wouldn't leave without his men. That says a lot - unless I have bad info. If someone knows , share please.
Black1
Full Access Member
Obama does have a speech impediment.... Something like a studder. It's amazing that he speaks so well from a tele-prompter, or paper notes. Usually it's the other way around. I can and will be VERY detrimental to his campaign if this shows more than it has. That is why John McCain is pressuring him to participate in "Town Hall" meetings. He is hoping to get Obama away from the tele-prompter. 
OCBob
VIPER POWERED
Now you have me curious. But I have to say that the link you found, well let's just say it doesn't sound like a credible source hehehehe.TREKER said:
Just looking around real quick it seems that there isn't an ironclad answer to this, at least none that I've found yet.
If it was an accident caused by McCain "hotdogging", well then it certainly still was a tragedy, but accidents do happen. And pilots are hotshots, that's what makes them so good at what we ask them to do. And I can say that they aren't the only ones that find themselves pulling pranks that can go south real quick. We did stupid shit all the time in the Corps, luckily we never killed or hurt anyone too badly.
So, I'm gonna keep on looking and see what I can find out about this, if anything. But no matter it still wouldn't change my mind about McCain and his service as a POW. He did so honorably, and for that deserves our thanks and respect.
OCBob
VIPER POWERED
I've had the honor of meeting and getting to converse with POW's. There is no kind of hell on this earth like the one that they were in. McCain was given the chance to leave, because his father was an Admiral and it would have been politically beneficial for the North Vietnamese, and more importantly the Russians. But he refused to leave his Brothers behind, that is beyond honorable. I can't say for sure that I could have done that. I like to think that I would, but I have never been in that situation and can't guarantee it.TREKER said:
TREKER
Full Access Member
OCBob said:
I agree... But I wonder if there was more of a reason McCain stayed behind. If it were only not to leave the others, it is an incrdible sacrifice. Did he know that because of his father he would not be killed? Who knows. We rarely get the truth in the media and especially from the military or government. Lots of room to get lost in this one.
supercar1of1
Full Access Member
TREKER said:
That vidio is some kind of BS,
if there were any truth to it we would have
heard about it from other sources by now.
Any one that was in the service at that time
would confirm there is no way that could have
been covered up with so many witnesses.
Also any pilot will confirm youdon't F#@&* around
with live ordinance or he would have been grounded.
.
supercar1of1
Full Access Member
TREKER said:
Men of McCains and my generation were taught from birth that
duty, honor, and country were more important than ones life.
To abandon your brothers would have been unthinkable.
This concept was especially strong here in the south where we were taught
that if the enemy is over running you and the command is given
to retreat, you should walk backwards so if you were hit it would
be in your chest so when you were later found they would not think
you were a coward. Also when we grew up it was very physical.
Boys were almost encouraged to fight in school and the only games
we played were, Army, cowboys and Indians, cops and robbers ,
good guy's vs bad guy's. After that we would watch t.v. shows
such as Combat, Rat patrol, Gunsmoke, Sky king, Wanted Dead or Alive,
The Rifleman, Bonanza, Branded,and so on all providing role models for
character, integrity, and courage.
I can not imagine being raised where there is no compulsary physical
training, then coming home to watch sesami street, and these other silly ass
shows where it seems all the men are candy asses.
However It might explain why people today do not understand some
of us old farts.
.
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OCBob
VIPER POWERED
I think this is probably more likely the events that unfolded on the Forrestal that day.
About 10:50 (local time) on the 29th, while preparations for a second strike were being made near [show location on an interactive map] 19°9′5″N, 107°23′5″E,[3] an unguided 5-inch Mk-32 "Zuni" rocket, one of four contained in a LAU-10 underwing rocket pod mounted on an F-4 Phantom II, was accidentally fired due to an electrical power surge during the switch from external power to internal power.
The rocket flew across the flight deck, striking a wing-mounted external fuel tank on an A-4 Skyhawk, either Aircraft No. 405 piloted by LCDR Fred D. White[1] or No. 416 piloted by future Arizona Senator, LCDR John McCain,[4] which were waiting to launch.[3] The warhead's safety mechanism prevented it from detonating, but the impact tore the tank off the wing and ignited the resulting spray of pressurized fuel, causing an instantaneous conflagration. The heat caused additional fuel tanks to overheat, rupture and spew volatile jet fuel onto the deck, feeding the flames. Huge gusts of fire shot into the air along the flight deck, trapping pilots in their aircraft with no recourse but to escape through the flames or be incinerated in their cockpits. LCDR Fred D. White, waiting to launch in Aircraft No. 405, leaped out of his burning Skyhawk in an attempt to escape the inferno, but was killed instantly (along with many firefighters) by the cooking off of the first bomb. LCDR Herbert A. Hope of VA-46 (and operations officer of CVW-17) jumped out of the cockpit of his Skyhawk between explosions, rolled off the flight deck and into the starboard man-overboard net. Making his way down below to the hangar deck, he took command of a firefighting team. "The port quarter of the flight deck where I was" he recalled, "is no longer there."[3] With his aircraft surrounded by flames, McCain escaped by climbing out of the cockpit, walking down the nose and jumping off the refueling probe.
The impact of the Zuni on the initially-struck aircraft had also dislodged two of the 1000-lb bombs, which lay in the burning fuel. The fire teams chief, Gerald Farrier (without benefit of protective clothing) immediately drenched the bombs with a PKP fire extinguisher in an effort to knock down the fuel fire long enough to allow the pilots to escape. According to their training, the fire team normally had almost three minutes to reduce the temperature of the bombs to a safe level, but the chief did not realize the bombs were already critically close to cooking-off until one split open. The chief, knowing a lethal explosion was imminent, shouted for the fire team to withdraw but the bomb exploded seconds later.
One minute and 34 seconds after the impact and initial fire, and with the on-deck firefighting teams still actively battling the blaze, a 1000-lb. "Comp. B" bomb cooked off from the heat of the flames and exploded underneath McCain's plane; the force destroyed the aircraft (along with its remaining fuel and armament), blew a smoking crater in the armored flight deck, and sprayed the deck and crew with shrapnel and burning jet fuel. The explosion killed the entire on-deck firefighting contingent, with the exception of 3 men who managed to survive with critical injuries. The two bomb-laden A-4s in line ahead of McCain's were riddled with shrapnel from the explosion and engulfed in the flaming JP-5 jet fuel still spreading over the deck, causing more bombs to detonate and more fuel to spill.
Nine bomb explosions on the flight deck occurred, eight caused by the "Comp. B" bombs and the ninth occurred as a sympathetic detonation between an old bomb and a newer H6 bomb. The explosions tore large holes in the armored flight deck, causing flaming jet fuel to drain into the interior of the ship, including the living quarters directly underneath the flight deck, and the below-decks aircraft hangar.
Sailors and Marines brought the flames under control on the flight deck by 12:15, although they continued to clear smoke and to cool hot steel on the 02 and 03 levels until they reported all fires under control by 13:42, and finally declared the fire defeated at 04:00 the next morning, due to additional flare-ups.[3]
Throughout the day the ship’s medical staff worked in dangerous conditions to assist their comrades. HM2 Paul Streetman, one of 38 corpsmen assigned to the carrier, spent over 11 hours on the mangled flight deck tending to his shipmates. The large number of casualties quickly overwhelmed the ship’s Sick Bay staff, and Forrestal was escorted by USS Henry W. Tucker (DD-875) to rendezvous with hospital ship USS Repose (AH-16) at 20:54, allowing the crew to begin transferring the dead and wounded at 22:53.[3]
The fire left 134 Forrestal crewmen dead[5] and 161 more injured.[1] Many planes and armament were jettisoned to prevent them from catching fire/exploding. Twenty-one aircraft also sustained enough damage from fire, explosions and salt water to be stricken from naval inventory, including: seven F-4 Phantom IIs (BuNos 153046, 153054, 153060, 153061, 153066, 153069 and 153912); eleven A-4E Skyhawks (149996, 150064, 150068, 150084, 150115, 150118, 150129, 152018, 152024, 152036 and 152040); and three RA-5 Vigilantes (148932, 149282 and 149305). The fire also revealed that Forrestal required a heavy duty, armored forklift for use in the emergency jettisoning of aircraft (particularly heavier types such as the RA-5B Vigilante),[3] since the sailors of Forrestal had been forced to manually jettison numerous aircraft through human force,[citation needed] which was both inefficient and dangerous to the exposed crew.
About 10:50 (local time) on the 29th, while preparations for a second strike were being made near [show location on an interactive map] 19°9′5″N, 107°23′5″E,[3] an unguided 5-inch Mk-32 "Zuni" rocket, one of four contained in a LAU-10 underwing rocket pod mounted on an F-4 Phantom II, was accidentally fired due to an electrical power surge during the switch from external power to internal power.
The rocket flew across the flight deck, striking a wing-mounted external fuel tank on an A-4 Skyhawk, either Aircraft No. 405 piloted by LCDR Fred D. White[1] or No. 416 piloted by future Arizona Senator, LCDR John McCain,[4] which were waiting to launch.[3] The warhead's safety mechanism prevented it from detonating, but the impact tore the tank off the wing and ignited the resulting spray of pressurized fuel, causing an instantaneous conflagration. The heat caused additional fuel tanks to overheat, rupture and spew volatile jet fuel onto the deck, feeding the flames. Huge gusts of fire shot into the air along the flight deck, trapping pilots in their aircraft with no recourse but to escape through the flames or be incinerated in their cockpits. LCDR Fred D. White, waiting to launch in Aircraft No. 405, leaped out of his burning Skyhawk in an attempt to escape the inferno, but was killed instantly (along with many firefighters) by the cooking off of the first bomb. LCDR Herbert A. Hope of VA-46 (and operations officer of CVW-17) jumped out of the cockpit of his Skyhawk between explosions, rolled off the flight deck and into the starboard man-overboard net. Making his way down below to the hangar deck, he took command of a firefighting team. "The port quarter of the flight deck where I was" he recalled, "is no longer there."[3] With his aircraft surrounded by flames, McCain escaped by climbing out of the cockpit, walking down the nose and jumping off the refueling probe.
The impact of the Zuni on the initially-struck aircraft had also dislodged two of the 1000-lb bombs, which lay in the burning fuel. The fire teams chief, Gerald Farrier (without benefit of protective clothing) immediately drenched the bombs with a PKP fire extinguisher in an effort to knock down the fuel fire long enough to allow the pilots to escape. According to their training, the fire team normally had almost three minutes to reduce the temperature of the bombs to a safe level, but the chief did not realize the bombs were already critically close to cooking-off until one split open. The chief, knowing a lethal explosion was imminent, shouted for the fire team to withdraw but the bomb exploded seconds later.
One minute and 34 seconds after the impact and initial fire, and with the on-deck firefighting teams still actively battling the blaze, a 1000-lb. "Comp. B" bomb cooked off from the heat of the flames and exploded underneath McCain's plane; the force destroyed the aircraft (along with its remaining fuel and armament), blew a smoking crater in the armored flight deck, and sprayed the deck and crew with shrapnel and burning jet fuel. The explosion killed the entire on-deck firefighting contingent, with the exception of 3 men who managed to survive with critical injuries. The two bomb-laden A-4s in line ahead of McCain's were riddled with shrapnel from the explosion and engulfed in the flaming JP-5 jet fuel still spreading over the deck, causing more bombs to detonate and more fuel to spill.
Nine bomb explosions on the flight deck occurred, eight caused by the "Comp. B" bombs and the ninth occurred as a sympathetic detonation between an old bomb and a newer H6 bomb. The explosions tore large holes in the armored flight deck, causing flaming jet fuel to drain into the interior of the ship, including the living quarters directly underneath the flight deck, and the below-decks aircraft hangar.
Sailors and Marines brought the flames under control on the flight deck by 12:15, although they continued to clear smoke and to cool hot steel on the 02 and 03 levels until they reported all fires under control by 13:42, and finally declared the fire defeated at 04:00 the next morning, due to additional flare-ups.[3]
Throughout the day the ship’s medical staff worked in dangerous conditions to assist their comrades. HM2 Paul Streetman, one of 38 corpsmen assigned to the carrier, spent over 11 hours on the mangled flight deck tending to his shipmates. The large number of casualties quickly overwhelmed the ship’s Sick Bay staff, and Forrestal was escorted by USS Henry W. Tucker (DD-875) to rendezvous with hospital ship USS Repose (AH-16) at 20:54, allowing the crew to begin transferring the dead and wounded at 22:53.[3]
The fire left 134 Forrestal crewmen dead[5] and 161 more injured.[1] Many planes and armament were jettisoned to prevent them from catching fire/exploding. Twenty-one aircraft also sustained enough damage from fire, explosions and salt water to be stricken from naval inventory, including: seven F-4 Phantom IIs (BuNos 153046, 153054, 153060, 153061, 153066, 153069 and 153912); eleven A-4E Skyhawks (149996, 150064, 150068, 150084, 150115, 150118, 150129, 152018, 152024, 152036 and 152040); and three RA-5 Vigilantes (148932, 149282 and 149305). The fire also revealed that Forrestal required a heavy duty, armored forklift for use in the emergency jettisoning of aircraft (particularly heavier types such as the RA-5B Vigilante),[3] since the sailors of Forrestal had been forced to manually jettison numerous aircraft through human force,[citation needed] which was both inefficient and dangerous to the exposed crew.
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TREKER
Full Access Member
There are always three sides to a story. This one is probably more of McCain just being part of something with his family name associated. He served our country and wants to continue in a different role now. He will likely win too.
If Ron Paul is not on the GOP ticket, I will be voting for whoever McCain chooses as VP.
If Ron Paul is not on the GOP ticket, I will be voting for whoever McCain chooses as VP.
OCBob
VIPER POWERED
How true. But that doesn't mean that there still aren't some out there that are still brought up right, like my 4 boys. I learned the meaning of Brotherhood while growing up, it was reinforced while in the Corps, and has been reinforced even further in some other aspects of my life, that some here are familiar with. And I have and will continue to ingrain that in my boys.supercar1of1 said:Men of McCains and my generation were taught from birth that
duty, honor, and country were more important than ones life.
To abandon your brothers would have been unthinkable.
This concept was especially strong here in the south where we were taught
that if the enemy is over running you and the command is given
to retreat, you should walk backwards so if you were hit it would
be in your chest so when you were later found they would not think
you were a coward. Also when we grew up it was very physical.
Boys were almost encouraged to fight in school and the only games
we played were, Army, cowboys and Indians, cops and robbers ,
good guy's vs bad guy's. After that we would watch t.v. shows
such as Combat, Rat patrol, Gunsmoke, Sky king, Wanted Dead or Alive,
The Rifleman, Bonanza, Branded,and so on all providing role models for
character, integrity, and courage.
I can not imagine being raised where there is no compulsary physical
training, then coming home to watch sesami street, and these other silly ass
shows where it seems all the men are candy asses.
However It might explain why people today do not understand some
of us old farts.
.
Brotherhood is not dead, but it is much harder to find. Folks roll over and sacrifice "Brothers" at the first sign of serious trouble. Well, not me. And not my blood. We know the meaning in this house.
But I still cannot say with certainty that I wouldn't have left. I can't say that as I wasn't there in his shoes. I didn't experience the terrible things that he did, both mental and physical. It would be damn hard to turn down freedom as John McCain did, and he has my unwavering respect for that.
Venom Power
Full Access Member
The only thing I regret here... Is that Joe American didn't speak longer than 9 minutes. Who is this guy? He's great. Didn't I say somewhere today that the lack of money is what keeps great unknown people from being terrific presidential nominees? This guy talked about some stuff that makes me wanna quickly slap Hilary, Obama and John Three Stooges style.
YOU GO JOE!!!!
YOU GO JOE!!!!
supercar1of1
Full Access Member
I would say that pretty much confirms that vidio is off base.
supercar1of1
Full Access Member
OCBob said:
Our Military is proof that we still have a supply of people with
the right stuff. And you are totally correct in not knowing what your
reaction would be when faced with a critical situation, no person does.
Part of my research was interviewing police that had survived shootings
and some had been in several. Turns out the mood you are in greatly
affects your reaction, bottom line, if I ever get in some real crap again
I hope I am pissed off at something to begin with.
.
Venom Power
Full Access Member
Looking at both videos I see USS Forrester, USS Enterprise and USS Liberty. Now I can see McCain being tied to the USS Forrester and, somehow the alleged coverup over the USS Liberty attack.. But how was a connection made between him and the USS Enterprise? I'm not sticking up for him but these days anyone can publish anything on the Internet. Even if McCain was a lowly cook on the USS Forrester he would be targeted for blame regarding that incident today. I think we should tread carefully through what we read online before burning any candidate at the stake..
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OCBob
VIPER POWERED
I can say for certain that I wouldn't have given them anything in exchange for my freedom. I wouldn't sell out my Brothers for anything.supercar1of1 said:
BOB I dont have but a second , then I need to get back on the road to mobile al, but heard on the radio this morn, that a senator or someone last night or yesterday one, is pushing to impeach Bush
Ya might want to look it up, but they had video of it, but I only heard the vocal.
Could be interesting:dontknow:
Ya might want to look it up, but they had video of it, but I only heard the vocal.
Could be interesting:dontknow:
TREKER
Full Access Member
OCBob said:
I would give them Mikey....
supercar1of1
Full Access Member
TREKER said:I would give them Mikey....
Who would you have to verbally joust with?
Venom Power
Full Access Member
I still say they are all about as crooked as a roach leg..
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