Help! Clutch again. (PLEASE!!!)

[BigRed460]

...well I had all the issues with the slave worked out but now I have a very weird problem. The pressure plate bolt have backed out 4 times, the last time I lock tighted them in, I just ordered new bolt from dodge and I am going to try it again. Anyone had this happen to them?

The only thing I can think of is that I am using the service manual from my uncle 05' (same year as my truck) viper, maybe the torque specs are differnt?

I am waiting on a call from dan @ dc to...

Thanks,
Zac

 

[BigRed460]

Just talked with dan, he thinks the bolts are stretched. So the new one should solve it...

 

[mauiSRT/10]

Hopefully that'll be the fix.

patrick

 

[Prof]

Stretched out? Sorry I would never second guess Dan...but I don't understand "stretched out"...if it will torque down....hummmmm...someone needs to help me understand the term I guess.

 

[BigRed460]

Stretched out? Sorry I would never second guess Dan...but I don't understand "stretched out"...if it will torque down....hummmmm...someone needs to help me understand the term I guess.

I am more confused than you... This was my 11th install attempt. =/

 

[iraqivet01]

Stretched out? Sorry I would never second guess Dan...but I don't understand "stretched out"...if it will torque down....hummmmm...someone needs to help me understand the term I guess.

When bolts are over torqued or are weakened, the bolt will not stay tightened, because the threads are stretched.

 

[iraqivet01]

I've never used Locktite on clutch bolts, but does anyone think that would help after he installs the new bolts?

 

[BigRed460]

I've never used Locktite on clutch bolts, but does anyone think that would help after he installs the new bolts?

I lock tighted the old ones and dan told me to do the same to the new ones, I just don't see how 8 lock tighted bolts can back out like that.

 

[Muzzy]

Stretched out? Sorry I would never second guess Dan...but I don't understand "stretched out"...if it will torque down....hummmmm...someone needs to help me understand the term I guess.

Every fastener stretches. Depending on the quality of the metal used is whether the fastener will return to its original size after use. The best way to determine if a fastener has been torqued properly is by using a bolt stretch gauge. That is what I use on rod bolts. Obviously, you cannot use that type of gauge on all fasteners (i.e. head bolts, mains, etc). Cheaper fasteners like what you get from OEM's are pretty much a torque once and throw away. Once they have stretched from being torqued, they do not return to their original length/shape. If you try to retorque them again, it will most likely result in either an untrue torque or worse, a broken fastener. No fastener, not even ARP fasteners will last forever. Depending on much stretch they endure when torqued and how much stress they are subjected to in use determines how many times they may be used before replacing them. The manufacturer should be able to provide that information.

-Muzzy

 

[iraqivet01]

Every fastener stretches. Depending on the quality of the metal used is whether the fastener will return to its original size after use. The best way to determine if a fastener has been torqued properly is by using a bolt stretch gauge. That is what I use on rod bolts. Obviously, you cannot use that type of gauge on all fasteners (i.e. head bolts, mains, etc). Cheaper fasteners like what you get from OEM's are pretty much a torque once and throw away. Once they have stretched from being torqued, they do not return to their original length/shape. If you try to retorque them again, it will most likely result in either an untrue torque or worse, a broken fastener. No fastener, not even ARP fasteners will last forever. Depending on much stretch they endure when torqued and how much stress they are subjected to in use determines how many times they may be used before replacing them. The manufacturer should be able to provide that information.

-Muzzy

Ya, what he said...

 

[FSTJACK]

Every fastener stretches. Depending on the quality of the metal used is whether the fastener will return to its original size after use. The best way to determine if a fastener has been torqued properly is by using a bolt stretch gauge. That is what I use on rod bolts. Obviously, you cannot use that type of gauge on all fasteners (i.e. head bolts, mains, etc). Cheaper fasteners like what you get from OEM's are pretty much a torque once and throw away. Once they have stretched from being torqued, they do not return to their original length/shape. If you try to retorque them again, it will most likely result in either an untrue torque or worse, a broken fastener. No fastener, not even ARP fasteners will last forever. Depending on much stretch they endure when torqued and how much stress they are subjected to in use determines how many times they may be used before replacing them. The manufacturer should be able to provide that information.
-Muzzy

Very good information.

Cheap bolts that stretch when torqued are also slightly smaller in diameter when stretched, this will cause them to loosen sooner. Good new bolts are in order for flywheels, pressure plates, rod bolts, main cap bolts, head bolts/studs, exhaust, intake, fan, ect.

An ARP 2000 grade or better is required in most of these applications.

The threads in the part that the bolt is going into should also be cleaned with a tap or thread chaser. Then washed with solvent of some type; ie brakeclean, carb cleaner, using a round brush, then blown out with high pressure shop air.

 

[Prof]

Thanks Muzzy. I continue to learn every day...I love this site!

 

[Blaine@PSI]

New bolts should fix it Zac. I have a service manual that in a small captions says " New flywheel bolts must be used each time" so even the DMC knows that teh bolts are weak but in a short answer yes replace them will fix it.

 

[BigRed460]

New bolts should fix it Zac. I have a service manual that in a small captions says " New flywheel bolts must be used each time" so even the DMC knows that teh bolts are weak but in a short answer yes replace them will fix it.

I put new flywheel bolts in (grade 8) but the pressure plate bolts arn't the problem, I just went out there to clean out the holes with a bottoming tap and found that the hole weren't tapped or drilled all the way... The holes in the old flywheel are about 1/4 inch deeper, the bolts arn't tighting there bottom-ing(sp) out. You can suck the bolts all the way flush into the old flywheel w/o any thing on it, the new one only lets them go till there is about an 1/8th inch or a little more left.

How do I fix this? Send the wheel back, drill and tap it my self (LOL), or can I just put a lock washer on it? I still don't have the new bolts but there is no way a bole can stretch that far right? I have see head bolts strech 1/16th but there 3 inches long....

Thanks for the other info muzzy!

I am leaving work now but I willl check back in the morning before I start putting it back together....

Thanks,
Zac

 

[ZCx]

the new dodge bolts have locktite all ready on them. i went with ARP fasteners for my install. no prob to date. might also want to check & make sure that the flywheel bore and/or the end of the crankshaft has not been damaged. egg shaped, enlarged, frettin erosin, etc. bolts are made to hold it on not keep it centered.
didn't you start out by say your "pressure plate" bolts were backin out????

 

[BigRed460]

the new dodge bolts have locktite all ready on them. i went with ARP fasteners for my install. no prob to date. might also want to check & make sure that the flywheel bore and/or the end of the crankshaft has not been damaged. egg shaped, enlarged, frettin erosin, etc. bolts are made to hold it on not keep it centered.
didn't you start out by say your "pressure plate" bolts were backin out????

Thats what i ment the holes in the flywheel arn't deep enough for the pressure plate bolts.

 

[Silverback]

Thats what i ment the holes in the flywheel arn't deep enough for the pressure plate bolts.

That was going to be my guess. Either the bolts are bottoming out in the holes, or the shoulder (the non threaded part) is engaging the threaded part of the hole. Either way you are not getting the clamp up force necessary to prevent the bolt from becoming loose.

Damn, I forgot to add. Do not do anything with the holes in the flywheel. They are balanced and you do not want to upset this balance. Also you may end up with a stress riser and this will lead to a flywheel failure. This will ruin you day in a big way.

 

[sleeper]

Get the correct flywheel with the correct holes in it first.

 

[Westxsrt10]

Just talked with dan, he thinks the bolts are stretched. So the new one should solve it...

Remember to get 4 new 8mm axel bolts and 2 axel straps when reinstalling the drive shaft..another $45 but well worth it. (the used straps get stretch out also and can cause more problems)

 

[Prof]

Get the correct flywheel with the correct holes in it first.

Sounds like a very logical suggestion...how did you get the wrong one in the first place?