How lean is too lean??
- Thread starter Mighty1
- Start date
Tito#14SRT
Full Access Member
Exactly this^^^^^!!!!!! You need to put the belt on..if it is tune for a blower you need to run it with the blower just dont beat on it for the first couple hundred miles check your oil do an oil change check make sure your oil doesnt have something it shouldnt like metal shavings break the motor in correctly.
I have never seen someone not run the belt and try to break in the motor this way obviously its not going to run how its supposed to because the belt isnt on, airfuel is gonna be off. as long as you dont beat the living hell of it u should be fine to break it in just need to slap on the freaking belt bro!
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EXACTLY!! I think your setting yourself up for catastrophic failure by incorrectly breaking engine in without the belt, your gonna shock the engine, then B O O M!!! and your going to be back on here all upset cause your engine blew up and you know what were going to tell you...........
And another little bit of info for you, if you drive your truck light footed with the blower working you will never know it's there until you get on the throttle, ask me how I know, cause I have one, ask anyone that has a blower on their truck, so it's ridiculous by not having the belt on, what kind of a blower you have anyway? Or is there even a blower on the engine is why the belt isn't on?? Lol
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Tito#14SRT
Full Access Member
Thats like everything I mean I could have a twin turbo and drive the car normal do speed limit. You just need to have self control and respect the car. Im not saying im not gonna get on it! imma get on it but at the right time after i followed the steps to breaking it in properly trust me you want to do things right yoyr gonna regret beating on it and it goes BOOM!! then what?? lost money,time..headaches frustrations all because you didnt follow the steps right the first time.
Chuck B
Full Access Member
Please explain. That was true for narrow band O2 sensors but certainly isn't the case for wide band O2's. I tune engines all the time (motorcycle) and I tune/read A/F at various RPM's and throttle positions. Todays ecu's allow me to adjust for specific variables and not just WOT. Anyone using a narrow band O2 need to upgrade to post 2000yr equipment. Its 2012 for freaking sake!
BTW...the comment about "Shocking" the engine had me rolling on the floor. Good grief...Engines dont care if the blower is functioning or not. All that matters is A/F is correct given for conditions.
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I'm not really understanding why it would be bad to break it in without the Paxton. When you put a blower on something aftermarket it isn't usually a brand new engine anyway.
I spoke to Torrie about using a SC tune without the SC and he said it would be fine. The tune doesn't add fuel until it senses boost through the map sensor so it won't be super rich or anything.
Thank you guys for all the responses. I really like hearing everyones opinions and thoughts on the matter.
Now I have to start a new thread on the next problem that showed up....
I spoke to Torrie about using a SC tune without the SC and he said it would be fine. The tune doesn't add fuel until it senses boost through the map sensor so it won't be super rich or anything.
Thank you guys for all the responses. I really like hearing everyones opinions and thoughts on the matter.
Now I have to start a new thread on the next problem that showed up....
505'sFastestViper.
Full Access Member
thats fine but take the supercharger all the way off how well do you think the air is fowing with the charger not turning!!!!
505'sFastestViper.
Full Access Member
oh just read this okay im stumped
VENOMOUS1 RACING
Has Left the Room - Banned from VTCOA!
Please explain. That was true for narrow band O2 sensors but certainly isn't the case for wide band O2's. I tune engines all the time (motorcycle) and I tune/read A/F at various RPM's and throttle positions. Todays ecu's allow me to adjust for specific variables and not just WOT. Anyone using a narrow band O2 need to upgrade to post 2000yr equipment. Its 2012 for freaking sake!
BTW...the comment about "Shocking" the engine had me rolling on the floor. Good grief...Engines dont care if the blower is functioning or not. All that matters is A/F is correct given for conditions.
Amen! How the hell do you tune part throttle and tip in as well as idle? :dontknow:Scarrrryyyyy! :marchmellow:
rare03srt10
Full Access Member
Please explain. That was true for narrow band O2 sensors but certainly isn't the case for wide band O2's. I tune engines all the time (motorcycle) and I tune/read A/F at various RPM's and throttle positions. Todays ecu's allow me to adjust for specific variables and not just WOT. Anyone using a narrow band O2 need to upgrade to post 2000yr equipment. Its 2012 for freaking sake!
BTW...the comment about "Shocking" the engine had me rolling on the floor. Good grief...Engines dont care if the blower is functioning or not. All that matters is A/F is correct given for conditions.
THANK YOU!!! HOLY CRAP i thought i was the only one on the same page here lol. And about the "shocking" of the engine shit had me rolling too hahahahahaa
because 90% of the guys out there will call back and say well at 60 mph my a/f gauge is reading between 14-17, why is that? so the best thing for most folks is to only read the gauge at wot , that is when it pins down the a/f reading to where most people "that do not know how to tune a vehicle" can at least keep an eye on there readings.
Does anyone here run a high end engine for racing? NASCAR or alcohol or top fuel? How much break in do they do and where do they do it? If an engine is built properly and is tuned properly , it should be broken in as it will be driven normally. If a rod bolt fractured while being torqued it will fly apart ! Eventually. If a pushrod got plugged when you dropped it in the dirt, it will fail ... Sooner or later. Break in only allows wear so that it seals better.
they put it on an engine dyno, fire it up , let it warm up, then it goes to redline
Question then about dynoeing an engine, if you had a new built engine for FI and then you dyno it with no blower to break it in then put the blower on it and dyno it some more will anything change or stress in the engine???
It will make more power! push in more air and add fuel = more power. no detonation is the key. but running on the edge of detonation is where the real power is !!
I realize it's gonna make more power, I'm talking will it make any difference in the end result?
Will the end result on the engine make more power breaking in with the blower right from the start? Creating mole heat and sealing everything better? Or no difference?? Just curious if anyone knows or tried it??
AND for "shocking the engine" I was meaning putting more stress on it with adding the blower just to CLARIFY!!
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phunny
Full Access Member
First, really be careful who you are taking advice from whether it be a friend or the internet. What did your installer tell you?
Stoich for gasoline is 14.7 but this is at cruising. There are 2 different modes and ecu sees, cruising and wide open throttle (WOT) and these 2 wideband numbers are completely different. Cruise should be around 14.7 but can be higher if your tuners was going for a better cruising fuel mileage. WOT should be no more than 11:1 on gasoline.
The reason you are running lean is the ecu is expecting a certain airflow and adjusts the injectors accordingly and since you have the blower belt off you are starving it for air and fuel. You NEED to install the belt before you start melting your internals.
Stoich for gasoline is 14.7 but this is at cruising. There are 2 different modes and ecu sees, cruising and wide open throttle (WOT) and these 2 wideband numbers are completely different. Cruise should be around 14.7 but can be higher if your tuners was going for a better cruising fuel mileage. WOT should be no more than 11:1 on gasoline.
The reason you are running lean is the ecu is expecting a certain airflow and adjusts the injectors accordingly and since you have the blower belt off you are starving it for air and fuel. You NEED to install the belt before you start melting your internals.
Chuck B
Full Access Member
I'll 2nd the careful who's advice you follow lol. In my experience with modern motorcycle engines 12.5 gives best hp WOT. Not true in every case/engine but the dyno pretty well confirms it every time. As for other throttle positions again it really depends. HP Motorcycles with fuel injection are really particular when going from closed throttle to roll on. When you have an engine capable of 150+hp and you are entering turn 8 at Willows Springs doing 130+mph with your right knee on the deck you want a smooth transition as you apply throttle lol.
I generally have to set idle at 12.2 then add a bunch of fuel as the throttle is cracked to prevent "jerkiness" then will immediately run A/F back as the throttle continues.
I've had guys who wanted best MPG at 70 mph. I attach my portable A/F meter and run up to 70 mph recording A/F, RPM's and TPS. I can then go back and reduce fuel at that particular parameter. This particular MC went from 40-42mpg to 53-55mpg at that speed. Some engines will allow very lean A/F i.e. 18 with no detonation whereas others began to complain with anything over 14.
A custom tune is just that...custom to that engine and other parameters. There are plenty of general 'maps' that work just fine for various conditions and for most its good/safe enough.
Good info here! While cruising a wideband should bounce between 14.2 - 15.5! In my opinion 11.1 is SAFE but leaving some power on the table. I see 11.7 and even a 12.0 near the shift points with out detonation.
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