Lets talk REAL fuel systems for 600+ WHP....

JMB Justin

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Ive been getting alot of questions lately regarding fuel systems, with all the new engine builds and owners reaching for the 650+ whp area there is definitely a need for a real fuel system solution. Im going to lay out what I think based on my experience:

Voltage boosters: Yes these work, I have used them occasionally for vehicles needing just a little more fuel (like another 50whp worth). The stock system is good for 600-650whp at the absolute max. If your trying to achieve 750whp+ this is NOT a reliable option IMO. Its would be very silly to destroy a 10K motor because you wanted to save a thousand bucks on a fuel system.

External dual walbros inline with FMU: This is standard on some supercharger kits and does usually work for the intended horsepower of that kit. Throwing 100+ psi fuel pressure at stock injectors to make 700whp is definitely not the best option out there. Again if your trying to achieve 750whp+ this is NOT a reliable option IMO.

Dual/Triple Intank pumps or one large external pump: This is the only reliable option for the 750whp+ area. Unfortunately it is also the most expensive option, but for good reason. Stock parts are adequate for stock or near stock applications and these setups replace or modify all the stock parts for higher flow. I personally like the dual/triple walbro intank setup due to very little noise and the better fuel pickup point, plus walbros are usually more reliable and you have 2/3 pumps so if one does fail at least you can get home. There are some very nice external pumps as well, aeromotive, weldon, and magnafuel all make nice stuff, make 100% sure it is rated for constant use however as most of the bigger pumps are not.

Heres a breakdown of what your looking at cost wise for a dual/triple walbro setup:

For the dual intank pump setup with all hardware and relays it would be $480 plus shipping unless you want the rest of the fuel system. This would be two new pumps and everything that would be inside of the tank, plus the relays to power the pumps. There is a $200 refundable core charge on the stock canister assembly. Add $200 for triple pumps.

You would need a regulator, new feed and return line, filter, a ton of fittings, and rails (or modify your stock rails) to use this pump setup (or any new pump setup). I can modify a set of stock rails and powdercoat them (I have some in stock), those with the rest of the parts would be $835 total plus $100 core on the rails, plus the $480 and core ($200) on the pump setup. That would be 100% new, you would not reuse any of the current system except the injectors. Fittings are probably $300 of it, they add up very quick. All parts are the same or less in price than the major retailers.

Rail modifications are $175 of that with powdercoat. The stock inlet and crossovers have to be removed, one rail has to be shortened, and then fittings welded on, pressure tested, then preped and powdercoated.

Everything would be there except injectors for a 1000+ WHP fuel system.

If you wanted black hoses and fittings or all nickle plated fittings, I can do that too, but they are more expensive (about 20% more for the hose/fittings).

So:
$480 pump assembly, Add $200 for triple pumps.
$200 refundable core
$835 regulator/lines/modified rails/fittings/filter
$100 refundable core on rails


Total
$1315 parts, add $200 for triple pumps
$300 core charges

When Tony gets his rails finished those would be an excellent upgrade over the modded stock rails, especially for those looking for bling and the higher HP are (1000+).

Injectors are typically $600 and up for a set depending on size.

Justin
 
Hey Justin did we start something here. I do think the fuel system and the cam put me over the 700hp mark. Thanks again for your help with my build.
 
What about the inline external ones, with the injectors that come with the Roe:dontknow: That work for around 650rwhp?
I'd hate to lose freshly built motor cause I ran out of fuel:confused:
 
LoveThisTruck said:
What about the inline external ones, with the injectors that come with the Roe:dontknow: That work for around 650rwhp?
I'd hate to lose freshly built motor cause I ran out of fuel:confused:

With any pump added after the stock canister assembly, there is no fuel pressure regulator unless you use an FMU or a real regulator and return line setup. The stock setup is regulated at the canister and is a returnless system.
Justin
 
HV SRT said:
Hey Justin did we start something here. I do think the fuel system and the cam put me over the 700hp mark. Thanks again for your help with my build.

Thank You Don!
Justin
 
Justin, on the multiple fuel pump setup...other than a fuel pressure gauge what indicators could be used to immediately alert to the failure of one of the pumps?

My concern is that if one pump fails and a person continues to run, looking at a fuel pressure gauge is not an intuitive act...the damage could be done before a pump failure is recognized.

Because of this fear I have been an advocate of the large single external pump...but if there is a fail safe indicator somehow added to the system, it would resolve my hesitation.
 
Thanks for this thread Justin....from what you said I take it the voltage booster is OK in my case since I will be staying just under 700HP. This agrees with what Sean told me.

If I decide to go above 700HP I will definitely go with your in tank setup. This is probably 18-24 months away for me due to proactive self-imposed budget cuts related to the current economy..:(
 
What if your using a wet spray kit to hit ~750 rwhp??? what would you have to upgrade there to be safe?? I want a mild build, decent amount of headwork w/ cam, then a 200 or 250 shot using your fogger kit unless I can find a good direct port setup.... You said the fogger setup is good for a 300 shot on a good tune sooooo..... what would I need????
 
Tork_MoNsTeR said:
What if your using a wet spray kit to hit ~750 rwhp??? what would you have to upgrade there to be safe?? I want a mild build, decent amount of headwork w/ cam, then a 200 or 250 shot using your fogger kit unless I can find a good direct port setup.... You said the fogger setup is good for a 300 shot on a good tune sooooo..... what would I need????


Unless your going to have a dedicated fuel system for the N20 (IMO the best way to do large amounts of N20,) you will definitely need a dual pump setup or the large single external. The idea of a seperate fuel system for N20 is pricey, but you can run around on a stock fuel system making 500-550 NA, then have race gas in a dedicated cell/system for N20. Spray on the fly with no need to change tunes, timing, etc. (assuming a wet kit).
Justin
 
Prof said:
Justin, on the multiple fuel pump setup...other than a fuel pressure gauge what indicators could be used to immediately alert to the failure of one of the pumps?

My concern is that if one pump fails and a person continues to run, looking at a fuel pressure gauge is not an intuitive act...the damage could be done before a pump failure is recognized.

Because of this fear I have been an advocate of the large single external pump...but if there is a fail safe indicator somehow added to the system, it would resolve my hesitation.

On Jacks truck we put switches to turn each pump off indiviually, that way you can test them anytime you want. It would be a power override like an electric fan, so you can turn them on but not off. A wideband air fuel meter should be in EVERY performance build and should be routinely monitered. I cant even count how many SRT4 neons I have diagnosed with a faulty factory pump that was enough for the car to run decent at WOT, but running 16:1+ A/F ratios. They never knew because they didnt have a wideband, the car just didnt seem as strong.

Justin
 
Prof said:
Justin, on the multiple fuel pump setup...other than a fuel pressure gauge what indicators could be used to immediately alert to the failure of one of the pumps?

My concern is that if one pump fails and a person continues to run, looking at a fuel pressure gauge is not an intuitive act...the damage could be done before a pump failure is recognized.

Because of this fear I have been an advocate of the large single external pump...but if there is a fail safe indicator somehow added to the system, it would resolve my hesitation.
and when a pump goes out you can hear it
 
JMB Justin said:
Unless your going to have a dedicated fuel system for the N20 (IMO the best way to do large amounts of N20,) you will definitely need a dual pump setup or the large single external. The idea of a seperate fuel system for N20 is pricey, but you can run around on a stock fuel system making 500-550 NA, then have race gas in a dedicated cell/system for N20. Spray on the fly with no need to change tunes, timing, etc. (assuming a wet kit).
Justin

what kind of damage would I be looking at for a dedicated spray fuel setup??
 
Custom fuel cell ~ $200
Fuel pump: $150-300
Filter: $40-100
Regulator: $140
Fittings/hose: $200-300
 
Will this be available in kit form? I think it would be cool to do that for the Nitrous guys.....
 
I can make something up that mounts in the battery tray like Jacks fuel cell for his N20, and include everything in kit form. There would be some assembly required since everyones N20 setup is going to be different.
Justin
 
That sounds good. I dont think a little assembly would hurt anyone.... LOL
 
For a dedicated fuel system using a 255 inline walbro, custom cell to fit in the battery tray, aeromotive regulator, filter, fittings, and line, I came up with $699. Now this would be a generic style kit, I can custom tailor it to your specific needs for more/less $$$.
Justin
 

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