Motorcycle: Starting problems.

[JeffBoyette]

When i bought my hayabusa last week the guy told me it needed a starter.
I was ok with that. For the money i paid for it, I had extra to buy one if need be.

When its cold, the starter spins its ass off and the headlights shine strong while its spinning, and fires right up. Ride it for 20 minutes cut it off and try again. It turns slow and stops after 3-4 rotations headlights dimming almost dark. You can feel the exhaust valves open from the Poof at the exhaust so it is turning over.

First thing i did was test the battery. It was borderline so i bought another.
Charged it 8 hours. Fired up fine 4 times in a row while it was cold, rode it 20 minutes, and then the same issue. It turns over slow 2-5 rotations and stops, Headlights dim.

I do my research and some say weak starter, some say bad ground, some say faulty rectifier.

But here is the thing.... If i hit the starter button and it turns over slow, i release it, wait for fuel pump to stop running and hit it again, sometimes, very randomly, it will spin fast like everything is ok and the bike starts. Cut it off ,hit the starter and its dead again. Hit it again and it spins strong.

The colder the bike is the more consistent it starts the headlights shining strong while cranking. The hotter it is the worse the problem gets, with headlights dimming and each time try it sounds like the fuel pump gets weaker. That one time you hit it just right the fuel pump sounds strong the starter is strong and the headlights are bright. WTF!

 

[wesalbert]

My 03 Busa did something similar. Almost like what people describe as being hydrolocked. When it was warm, it was really straining to turn over. What I would end up doing was tapping the starter, wait a few seconds and then it would start normaly. Would only do this when it was hot. Almost like it would "releave" some pressure somewhere.

 

[eddie102870]

have you put a new starter on it yet?

 

[kickinassrt-10]

Maybe a bad magneto since it only happens when it's warm? It's probably not producing enough spark to start the bike when it's warm... Similar thing happened to my 4 wheeler a while back!

 

[JeffBoyette]

Maybe a bad magneto since it only happens when it's warm? It's probably not producing enough spark to start the bike when it's warm... Similar thing happened to my 4 wheeler a while back!

When starting it gets the juice directly from the battery.

The spark and fuel is there when it turns over fast enough for it to fire.

Its so random within 1 minute it will go.... Slow, Slow Slow, FAST, Slow, FAST
But when its slow i mean like 2-3 rotations of the crank then it stops and strains dimming the lights.

 

[kickinassrt-10]

When starting it gets the juice directly from the battery.

The spark and fuel is there when it turns over fast enough for it to fire.

Its so random within 1 minute it will go.... Slow, Slow Slow, FAST, Slow, FAST
But when its slow i mean like 2-3 rotations of the crank then it stops and strains dimming the lights.

That's true....the magneto mearly acts as a alternator....
Sounds like a bad starter or something is giving the problem to make the starter acts like that!:dontknow:

 

[OCBob]

Could be the solenoid. But I know nothing about Japanese bikes, so take that for what it's worth.

 

[JeffBoyette]

Solenoid is pass-fail. Ive never heard of a solenoid sending low voltage to a starter with just enough current to slowly spin it, draining the whole electrical system including the headlights and the fuel pump.

 

[JeffBoyette]

Ok i put a multimeter on it.

Battery sitting is 13.8 volts, when it starts good when its cold. The voltage under load is 11.3 and once started it idles at 14.4 volts and at 5k rpm it goes up to 14.7 volts. These numbers look perfectly normal to me. Any comments?

I havent checked the voltage while its acting up, i have to drive it during lunch and get it hot to replicate the issue. When i get the numbers i will post.

 

[hcetzneb]

Try either a voltage drop test on the starter or check the amprage(draw) when its acting up and compare it to when its not.. it definatly seems electrical as if you play with the switch. I would go throught all the grounds and power connectors first and check for corrosion. Ive seen the starters lock up when hot before.

 

[OCBob]

Sorry, I misread the post. A little early and a little loud here in the mornings with the boys hehe.

Next time it happens if you can jump the starter and see if it will turn over.

 

[mr. anderson]

get a larger rated battery. the stock ones in the busa's suck and have always had restart issues after the engine is hot.

 

[JeffBoyette]

get a larger rated battery. the stock ones in the busa's suck and have always had restart issues after the engine is hot.

I agree the stock battery is marginal, but i have a brand new battery that works perfectly during the 2 minute Weak, Weak, Weak, fast, Weak, Fast. When its weak everything on the bike gets dimmer and the fuel pump goes weak. 5 second later i hit it again, everything sounds loud strong and it fires up great.

Next time it happens if you can jump the starter and see if it will turn over.

Jumper cables make zero change when it is acting up.

Battery sitting is 13.8 volts, when it starts good when its cold. The voltage under load is 11.3 and once started it idles at 14.4 volts and at 5k rpm it goes up to 14.7 volts. These numbers look perfectly normal to me. Any comments?

It traced out the wires going to the starter and the rectifier from the battery. I removed them, cleaned them, greased them and reinstalled. No change.

What is bizarre is when its acting up it doesnt matter if i have it jumped or not. There is zero change in the slow starting jumper cables or not. The headlight still dims and it still turns over to slow to start. I take the battery out and put on my charger and it wont take any. Shows it fully charged.

So I think the battery and cables are completely eliminated from the equation.

Im down to a rectifier that is randomly leaking voltage to ground, or possibly a shorted stator. Any info on how to test them? It will be days before my repair manual comes in the mail

 

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

you need a starter, you have a bad spot on the starter itself, the brushes arent making good contact a certain points, what happens is the brushes rub against the copper, and in certain areas its not making contact , that is why when cold its strting pretty well fine, when hot it all expands and conections get worse, plus the spin fast . slo thing, as it is rotateing its loosing voltage, ya sh$t be wore out, get a nuddin

 

[kennygene]

you need a starter, you have a bad spot on the starter itself, the brushes arent making good contact a certain points, what happens is the brushes rub against the copper, and in certain areas its not making contact , that is why when cold its strting pretty well fine, when hot it all expands and conections get worse, plus the spin fast . slo thing, as it is rotateing its loosing voltage, ya sh$t be wore out, get a nuddin

What he said!:rock: Put on a new starter!

 

[JeffBoyette]

you need a starter, you have a bad spot on the starter itself, the brushes arent making good contact a certain points, what happens is the brushes rub against the copper, and in certain areas its not making contact , that is why when cold its strting pretty well fine, when hot it all expands and conections get worse, plus the spin fast . slo thing, as it is rotateing its loosing voltage, ya sh$t be wore out, get a nuddin

K. Im going to take the starter off tonight... not easy to get to. Ill take it into the shop and have them do a test on it. Its an expensive sumbitch

 

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

Jeff look in the yellow pages for a local alternator shop, 9 times out of ten they can rebuild it for pennies the cost of a new one, and you end up most of the time with a better starter, or if you are ballsy enough wehn you get it off, pull it apart, take some scotchbrite, and polish up the copper, you will probably see a couple bad black areas, those are most likley the ones giving you the problem , and look at the brushes, they may be worn badly, but usually the jap brushes last a long time, n

now seriously if you decide to take it apart, be very very very careful bud, you will loose those small springs in a heartbeat and be screwed

i took ONE apart, the rest I took to the alternator shop:argh:

 

[Tork_MoNsTeR]

Jeff look in the yellow pages for a local alternator shop, 9 times out of ten they can rebuild it for pennies the cost of a new one, and you end up most of the time with a better starter, or if you are ballsy enough wehn you get it off, pull it apart, take some scotchbrite, and polish up the copper, you will probably see a couple bad black areas, those are most likley the ones giving you the problem , and look at the brushes, they may be worn badly, but usually the jap brushes last a long time, n

now seriously if you decide to take it apart, be very very very careful bud, you will loose those small springs in a heartbeat and be screwed

i took ONE apart, the rest I took to the alternator shop:argh:

Thats what i would do.... we have local alternator and starter repair shops that can rebuild them for about 25% of a new one...

 

[JeffBoyette]

Bought a bone stock, 03 hayabusa with 4100 miles. Ive put 200 miles on it.
Guy told me it needed a starter, but for the money i was paying for it i said no problem.
It lugs or rather spins over weak and slow after its been running only 2 minutes, then randomly you hit the button and it spins fast!

During testing it didnt seem like a starter.
Tested battery, marginal, replaced. Second battery was questionable, so i warranted it and got another. Same problem
Inspected, ohm'd all cables and grounds, cleaned terminals. Same problem.
Tested the stator, ohm'd good, put out 84V
Swapped rectifier with known good, and tested diodes in both. Same problem 13.7 at idle 14.2-14.7 at 5k rpm.
Jumped the starter directly from battery eliminating all wiring, and grounds, same problem.
Removed starter, ohm'd good, cleaned commutator, checked brushes reinstalled, same problem.
Ordered a new OE starter, Same problem.
Took a 1000 CCA Optima Red top. grounded new starters case, and hit positive to post. Same Problem

Video coming soon... 2 neighbors of mine came over after i got the starter on. Same symptoms, they were as dumbfounded as I so we filmed it to show everyone what its doing.
Could the starter clutch be dragging? Timing randomly advanced? Partial Hydrolock? WTF?

 

[JeffBoyette]

Im thinking random timing advance while starting thats igniting the air/fuel mix while the piston is still on the compression stroke putting strain on the starter....?

Im lost any thoughts?