Motorcycle: Starting problems.

[JeffBoyette]

Just talking to myself here, and thought i would share.

Cant be timing advance, because when i hit the starter with the jumpercables, the ignition was off.

No ignition= no spark, no fuel, no ignition.

So electrical system and starter eliminated. Something mechanicial is binding when hot. Some may advise spun bearing. But there is no oil, no oil burn, no noise. It runs like a champ. Maybe idler gear, or starter clutch.

Some may advise the trans may be sorta in gear. But i pushed the bike and it was indeed in neutral.

 

[kennygene]

Starter clutch could be wrong and would be hard to diagnose. The engine would turn slow but, the starter would be turning normal speed.
I'm also wondering about automatic decompression? Does it have automatic decompression on the exhaust camshaft? If so, it may be bad or have damaged springs/weights. You may want to look into that one more.

 

[OCBob]

When you jumped directly to the starter it turned fine, is that right? Where is your battery located?

 

[fastbill]

how bout pulling the plugs, so it's not building any compression at all, and see if it still gives you any problem spinning the motor? at least you could possibly eliminate a hydrolock scenario or narrow it down to a def starter or related electrical problem that way l would think...if it spins the motor fine on several attempts, then l would start looking towards fuel or timing? When it does fire up after a few weak turns, any smoke from exhaust?

 

[JeffBoyette]

When you jumped directly to the starter it turned fine, is that right? Where is your battery located?

No after I got it warm and replicated the problem I used my trucks optima red top jumped the starter and no change

 

[JeffBoyette]

how bout pulling the plugs, so it's not building any compression at all, and see if it still gives you any problem spinning the motor? at least you could possibly eliminate a hydrolock scenario or narrow it down to a def starter or related electrical problem that way l would think...if it spins the motor fine on several attempts, then l would start looking towards fuel or timing? When it does fire up after a few weak turns, any smoke from exhaust?

When I jumped the starter directly from a spare battery the ignition was off and it did same thing that eliminates fuel and spark

Only reason I'm not considering hydrolock is because there is no smoke, 8.5 compression ratio, it idles fine with no smoke or oil/antifreeze lose shut it off and 1 second later the starter struggles. No time to fill cylinders.. Then its random work fail.

 

[JeffBoyette]

Here are the videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IXJdOHlLso

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62cuHv1AMiw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIdD4STwk7M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUTmDWqoezM

 

[OCBob]

I know I'm gonna get laughed out of here, but here's exactly what I would do. I would wrap the entire starter assembly in a heat resistant material. They make some stuff for welding that will work. Give it a try. I think it may be the starter motor itself getting hot.

 

[JeffBoyette]

I know I'm gonna get laughed out of here, but here's exactly what I would do. I would wrap the entire starter assembly in a heat resistant material. They make some stuff for welding that will work. Give it a try. I think it may be the starter motor itself getting hot.

The stock starter did it . I rebuilt it and it did it. But myself and everyone I know still said starter so I bought one and it did it. start it run 2 minutes shot off and hit the starter button a few times in 1 minute and its.... Weak weak strong weak weak. Heat soaked starter would not do that.

I even swapped out my cold rebuilt starter minutes after the new one was doing it and the cold starter was identical.

Its like the idler gear is too close tolerance and expands in heat binding.... Or the starter clutch (which is seperate from the starter 2 gears away) is getting hot and binding to the shaft it rides on.

Anyone watch my videos?
Here are the videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IXJdOHlLso

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62cuHv1AMiw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIdD4STwk7M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUTmDWqoezM

 

[fastbill]

l watched the vids, and l think you definitely have a problem with the automatic decompression system. l'd bet that if you took the plugs out, it will spin all day long, every time. Not much of a help in trying to figure out what is wrong with it, but l'd start looking into what it is that triggers the exhaust valve to open when it is being started. Seems like sometimes it works, sometimes not... but l'd bet with no plugs it spins all day...

 

[flchub]

why make this into something bigger than what it is,the symptoms you described occur in just about any starter before it goes completely out.
YOU NEED A NEW STARTER

 

[Dom426]

i have 2 busa starters in my garage i think.....

 

[Dom426]

oh and the only time my busa ever acted like this exctly like this i mean eacactly like this is when my timing chain skipped....it would still run great but it made for hard tarts!!!!!!!!!!i have had 7 busas built the motors myself put turbo kits n them and even got to help with the tuning on the dyno!!!!!!
here is my drag bike 500whp

one of my other street bikes turboed the one that put me in the hospital 300whp

 

[Dom426]

i love busas maybe again one of these days

 

[FerrariTruck]

jeff you should do a voltage drop on the pos battery cable going to starter.

then do one on the neg cable going from starter to battery or from the frame to the battery,


also check how much voltage the starter has availble to it while cranking and check to see how much its actually consuming..

let me know if you need help doing these tests

 

[Slitherbeast]

starter is to small

Just like the old harley's ,You would have to retard the timing when you kicked it over or it would kick you "over" the handle bars! That bike has to have the same type of system that retards timing. Disconnect the battery each time you shut it off and see if it is easier to start.

 

[kennygene]

going....going....