Nascar Engines

[mauiSRT/10]

Can we put a dry sump system on our motors? Can you explAIN exactly what drysump is?

I think Boomer might have that deal for you. Thats the oil pump thing-a-ma-jig thingy???

patrick

 

[Blaine@PSI]

basically you move the oil pan to an outside source. this removes "windage" and allows the motor to spin more freely without the crank slapping the oil. The oil is in its own container and a outside pump is used most of the time. it also keeps the oil cooler and saves lifetime on parts.

IT is not very streetable for the most part but ford did engineer it to perform in the new Ford GT supercar. which is a street/race car.

 

[VPRPWR]

Most production cars have a wet sump oil system. The HowStuffWorks article on car engines shows you where the sump is -- it's the area below the crank shaft. In a wet sump, the oil that you put into the engine is stored beneath the crankshaft in the oil pan. This pan has to be large and deep enough to hold four to six quarts of oil -- think about two 3-liter bottles of soda and you can see that this storage area is pretty big.

In a wet sump, the oil pump sucks oil from the bottom of the oil pan through a tube, and then pumps it to the rest of the engine.

In a dry sump, extra oil is stored in a tank outside the engine rather than in the oil pan. There are at least two oil pumps in a dry sump -- one pulls oil from the sump and sends it to the tank, and the other takes oil from the tank and sends it to lubricate the engine. The minimum amount of oil possible remains in the engine.

Dry sump systems have several important advantages over wet sumps:

Because a dry sump does not need to have an oil pan big enough to hold the oil under the engine, the main mass of the engine can be placed lower in the vehicle. This helps lower the center of gravity and can also help aerodynamics (by allowing a lower hoodline).

The oil capacity of a dry sump can be as big as you want. The tank holding the oil can be placed anywhere on the vehicle.

In a wet sump, turning, braking and acceleration can cause the oil to pool on one side of the engine. This sloshing can dip the crankshaft into the oil as it turns or uncover the pump's pick-up tube.

Excess oil around the crankshaft in a wet sump can get on the shaft and cut horsepower. Some people claim improvements of as much as 15 horsepower by switching to a dry sump.
The disadvantage of the dry sump is the increased weight, complexity and cost from the extra pump and the tank -- but that's a small price to pay for such big benefits!

How Does a Dry Sump System Work?
Dry Sump oiling systems are the safest, most dependable oiling systems available. They are popular in all forms of racing, especially where low chassis height is important for good handling. Horsepower gain is maximized because there is virtually no oil in the pan and no internal pump, so the windage tray or screen can run the full length of the pan.
Other advantages of a dry sump system include a remotely mounted oil tank for increased capacity, the ability to easily add remote oil coolers, more consistent oil pressure, adjustable oil pressure, improved scavenging and increased ring seal due to greater pan vacuum.


Multi-Stage Pumps
The three-stage dry sump pump has one pressure section and two scavenge sections, while the four-stage pump has one pressure and three scavenge sections. The pressure section of each feeds oil to the block, while the scavenge sections pull oil from special pickups in the dry sump oil pan. The four-stage dry sump pump is plumbed like the three stage, but the line from the additional scavenge section can be routed to pull excess oil from the lifter valley. This keeps oil from sloshing around in the top of the engine and running down onto the rotating assembly, reducing windage and increasing horsepower. Recently, the need for a five-stage pump with four scavenge stages has arisen for large displacement drag race engines. Razor’s new five-stage pump is capable of creating the higher crankcase vacuum needed by today’s "mountain motors".

 

[WS-6]

Sweet right up! Dry sump also keeps the oil were it needs to be during hard cornering. I had no idea they gained that much. Dry sumps are usually 7 or 8 qt right?

 

[WS-6]

The ls7 uses it aswell.

 

[SHU-DOG]

Most production cars have a wet sump oil system. The HowStuffWorks article on car engines shows you where the sump is -- it's the area below the crank shaft. In a wet sump, the oil that you put into the engine is stored beneath the crankshaft in the oil pan. This pan has to be large and deep enough to hold four to six quarts of oil -- think about two 3-liter bottles of soda and you can see that this storage area is pretty big.

In a wet sump, the oil pump sucks oil from the bottom of the oil pan through a tube, and then pumps it to the rest of the engine.

In a dry sump, extra oil is stored in a tank outside the engine rather than in the oil pan. There are at least two oil pumps in a dry sump -- one pulls oil from the sump and sends it to the tank, and the other takes oil from the tank and sends it to lubricate the engine. The minimum amount of oil possible remains in the engine.

Dry sump systems have several important advantages over wet sumps:

Because a dry sump does not need to have an oil pan big enough to hold the oil under the engine, the main mass of the engine can be placed lower in the vehicle. This helps lower the center of gravity and can also help aerodynamics (by allowing a lower hoodline).

The oil capacity of a dry sump can be as big as you want. The tank holding the oil can be placed anywhere on the vehicle.

In a wet sump, turning, braking and acceleration can cause the oil to pool on one side of the engine. This sloshing can dip the crankshaft into the oil as it turns or uncover the pump's pick-up tube.

Excess oil around the crankshaft in a wet sump can get on the shaft and cut horsepower. Some people claim improvements of as much as 15 horsepower by switching to a dry sump.
The disadvantage of the dry sump is the increased weight, complexity and cost from the extra pump and the tank -- but that's a small price to pay for such big benefits!

How Does a Dry Sump System Work?
Dry Sump oiling systems are the safest, most dependable oiling systems available. They are popular in all forms of racing, especially where low chassis height is important for good handling. Horsepower gain is maximized because there is virtually no oil in the pan and no internal pump, so the windage tray or screen can run the full length of the pan.
Other advantages of a dry sump system include a remotely mounted oil tank for increased capacity, the ability to easily add remote oil coolers, more consistent oil pressure, adjustable oil pressure, improved scavenging and increased ring seal due to greater pan vacuum.


Multi-Stage Pumps
The three-stage dry sump pump has one pressure section and two scavenge sections, while the four-stage pump has one pressure and three scavenge sections. The pressure section of each feeds oil to the block, while the scavenge sections pull oil from special pickups in the dry sump oil pan. The four-stage dry sump pump is plumbed like the three stage, but the line from the additional scavenge section can be routed to pull excess oil from the lifter valley. This keeps oil from sloshing around in the top of the engine and running down onto the rotating assembly, reducing windage and increasing horsepower. Recently, the need for a five-stage pump with four scavenge stages has arisen for large displacement drag race engines. Razor’s new five-stage pump is capable of creating the higher crankcase vacuum needed by today’s "mountain motors".

Hey Daniel,

Have you seen one made for our truck yet? Cost?

Maybe boomer has something?

It's not like we don't have room for it in our engine bays. Well those of us without superchargers anyway.

Kevin

 

[ROKTMAN]

Boomer has these:


Did you know that 50% of engine wear accurs at startup? The first, as I'm sure you've heard before, is during the start-up procedure.

When you reach for that ignition your engine oil is sitting in your oil pan, maybe a little in your oil filter.

But there is none where your engine needs it the most, where those metal on metal surfaces are.

So as you turn that key and your engine starts to spin, your engine has no oil pressure, no supply of oil to those moving parts.

Until your engine is running and the oil pump is pumping, it has very little protection from this kind of metal on metal wear.
after sitting for a while, oil drains back to the pan uncovering vital bearing surfaces leaving them exposed for the few seconds at startup until is recirculated again. also Viper engines dont have cam bearings. the cam rides directly in the aluminum block itself, so premature wear can occur from lubrication issues. i have been working on putting together this kit that will not only prelube your engine prior to startup, but also protect it should when you are driving/racing you lose oil pressure, this product will release 3 qaurts of pressurized oil back into the oil system.

The second condition when your engine loses oil pressure is during an extreme condition when the oil pressure surges.

Such as everyday hard braking and turning on the street (and most certainly on the track), extreme vehicle angles such as off-road conditions or in marine applications when there happens to be rough conditions.

These are the same conditions that would spill your coffee out of your coffee cup.

During these times the oil in the pan moves away from the oil pick-up tube (the tube that the oil pump sucks the oil out of the oil pan through) and there is a sudden loss of oil pressure.

Again leaving your engine without that vital lubrication.
this is how it works:
On initial start-up when the valve on the oil side is opened the pressurized oil is released into the engine and therefore pre-lubricating the engine prior to start-up.

The Accusump holds whatever oil pressure the engine has at the time that it is shut off.

After the engine is started and the oil pump has taken over, oil is pumped back into the Accusump.

This moves the piston back and pressurizes the Accusump until it equalizes with engine's oil pressure.

While driving, if the engine's oil pressure is interrupted for any reason, the Accusump releases its oil reserve again, keeping the engine lubricated until the engine's oil pressure comes back to normal.

This release of oil could last from 15 to 60 seconds, depending on the size and speed of the engine.

In racing or hard driving conditions, the Accusump will automatically fill and discharge when needed as you corner, accelerate and brake.
we have a oil filter sandwich adapter that goes between the oil filter & block, a 10AN braided line goes to the Billet accusump. this is also a great product for guys with superchargers/turbos as it can be configured as an aftercooler luber to cool the bearings at shutdown. the kit i am putting together will include everything needed to install it, and an electric solenoid that wires in so that when you turn the key on the solenoid will open allowing the accusump to fill the oilsystem prelubing the engine, (& or blower -turbo) as you watch the oil pressure gauge show pressure instantly! then when the engine is turned off the solenoid closes, holding oil pressure to what is was prior to turning off the key. this will also add 3 more qaurts of capacity to the oil system!
The Accusump is built from a heavy wall, roller burnished aluminum tubing which is Teflon coated inside.
Features include a double o-ring piston, screw in billet aluminum end caps, saftey end clamps to prevent distortion, air pressure gauge, air pre-charge valve and a safety blow-off valve. i have been working on this kit & it will have a braided steel hose with billet an fittings, the electric solenoid, the safety valve, oil filter adapter, hardware, and i will post step by step instructions with pictures. forum price is $445 for it all.
the install should take no more than 30-45 minutes.
i have this kit installed on both of trucks, & my car. so i have everything worked out for our srt to be perfect. this is the smartest thing you could do for yourself & your baby, no matter if you hot rod it or not, this WILL keep your Viper engine alive longer. you dont want to price a Viper rebuild! so step up & post here your interest & i can get your kit to you.


http://www.srt10forum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2538

 

[Prof]

What a great informative thread! Thanks guys.

 

[Prof]

Well I plan on finding out first hand when they come to Lakeland. This is my cousin's daughter!! Pretty impressive for a 20 Yo!!

I'll be pullin for here even though she's not driving a Dodge!! You gotta love her sponsor!!

If you only looked half as good....or if you drove have as fast...or...never mind.

 

[Marc T]

Marc, you gotta get me a signed poster like that one of Michelle!! I remember last year/2 years ago not sure, they had a reality show about new aspiring drivers in which she was involved. What is she doing now? I saw that Eric Crocker is racing trucks. Started second Friday night. If you can get her to sign a poster tell her I send a sweet supply of my tanning products!!

Thanks for the input on the engines guys. So what size are the blocks that they start with? From what I know, they all start with the same parts?

patrick

Patrick, E-mail me your addy and I will send you one!! I just happen to have an extra!!

She's racing in the Hooters Pro Cup!! Next race is Jennerstown 5/27!!

 

[SHU-DOG]

Boomer has these:


Did you know that 50% of engine wear accurs at startup? The first, as I'm sure you've heard before, is during the start-up procedure.

When you reach for that ignition your engine oil is sitting in your oil pan, maybe a little in your oil filter.

But there is none where your engine needs it the most, where those metal on metal surfaces are.

So as you turn that key and your engine starts to spin, your engine has no oil pressure, no supply of oil to those moving parts.

Until your engine is running and the oil pump is pumping, it has very little protection from this kind of metal on metal wear.
after sitting for a while, oil drains back to the pan uncovering vital bearing surfaces leaving them exposed for the few seconds at startup until is recirculated again. also Viper engines dont have cam bearings. the cam rides directly in the aluminum block itself, so premature wear can occur from lubrication issues. i have been working on putting together this kit that will not only prelube your engine prior to startup, but also protect it should when you are driving/racing you lose oil pressure, this product will release 3 qaurts of pressurized oil back into the oil system.

The second condition when your engine loses oil pressure is during an extreme condition when the oil pressure surges.

Such as everyday hard braking and turning on the street (and most certainly on the track), extreme vehicle angles such as off-road conditions or in marine applications when there happens to be rough conditions.

These are the same conditions that would spill your coffee out of your coffee cup.

During these times the oil in the pan moves away from the oil pick-up tube (the tube that the oil pump sucks the oil out of the oil pan through) and there is a sudden loss of oil pressure.

Again leaving your engine without that vital lubrication.
this is how it works:
On initial start-up when the valve on the oil side is opened the pressurized oil is released into the engine and therefore pre-lubricating the engine prior to start-up.

The Accusump holds whatever oil pressure the engine has at the time that it is shut off.

After the engine is started and the oil pump has taken over, oil is pumped back into the Accusump.

This moves the piston back and pressurizes the Accusump until it equalizes with engine's oil pressure.

While driving, if the engine's oil pressure is interrupted for any reason, the Accusump releases its oil reserve again, keeping the engine lubricated until the engine's oil pressure comes back to normal.

This release of oil could last from 15 to 60 seconds, depending on the size and speed of the engine.

In racing or hard driving conditions, the Accusump will automatically fill and discharge when needed as you corner, accelerate and brake.
we have a oil filter sandwich adapter that goes between the oil filter & block, a 10AN braided line goes to the Billet accusump. this is also a great product for guys with superchargers/turbos as it can be configured as an aftercooler luber to cool the bearings at shutdown. the kit i am putting together will include everything needed to install it, and an electric solenoid that wires in so that when you turn the key on the solenoid will open allowing the accusump to fill the oilsystem prelubing the engine, (& or blower -turbo) as you watch the oil pressure gauge show pressure instantly! then when the engine is turned off the solenoid closes, holding oil pressure to what is was prior to turning off the key. this will also add 3 more qaurts of capacity to the oil system!
The Accusump is built from a heavy wall, roller burnished aluminum tubing which is Teflon coated inside.
Features include a double o-ring piston, screw in billet aluminum end caps, saftey end clamps to prevent distortion, air pressure gauge, air pre-charge valve and a safety blow-off valve. i have been working on this kit & it will have a braided steel hose with billet an fittings, the electric solenoid, the safety valve, oil filter adapter, hardware, and i will post step by step instructions with pictures. forum price is $445 for it all.
the install should take no more than 30-45 minutes.
i have this kit installed on both of trucks, & my car. so i have everything worked out for our srt to be perfect. this is the smartest thing you could do for yourself & your baby, no matter if you hot rod it or not, this WILL keep your Viper engine alive longer. you dont want to price a Viper rebuild! so step up & post here your interest & i can get your kit to you.


http://www.srt10forum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2538

They are great. I have one for the boat since it sits soo much.

I was looking for an actual drysump setup for our trucks. I was thinking that since I am looking into doing some club racing a drysump and head/intake work would be better than just supercharging it. Cost may be a factor though.

Kevin

 

[SRT10VENOMOUS]

great info on the drysump