New Approach to Energy Independance

[Prof]

This afternoon on "Science Friday" the concept of a "War on air polluting Fossil Fuels"...

Now before you fly off the handle think about the possibilities...

Were we to put into energy research the same amount we put into Iraq each year (currently about $90 billion) we very well might be able to become the energy dominant power. Whether it is a new technology, an improved way to use existing fuels, or finding ways to make some or all of the alternatives efficient.

We currently as the most powerful nation in the world spend about $4 billion a year on energy R&D...if we moved that funding into the $90 or $100 billion a year area what would be the possibilities? And if we were successful...would we care what happens in the mid-east? Isn't most of our interest there a "oil strategic" issue?

Just like to hear some opinions...over the weekend...trying to get our thinkers thinking...

 

[jelms]

This afternoon on "Science Friday" the concept of a "War on air polluting Fossil Fuels"...

Now before you fly off the handle think about the possibilities...

Were we to put into energy research the same amount we put into Iraq each year (currently about $90 billion) we very well might be able to become the energy dominant power. Whether it is a new technology, an improved way to use existing fuels, or finding ways to make some or all of the alternatives efficient.

We currently as the most powerful nation in the world spend about $4 billion a year on energy R&D...if we moved that funding into the $90 or $100 billion a year area what would be the possibilities? And if we were successful...would we care what happens in the mid-east? Isn't most of our interest there a "oil strategic" issue?

Just like to hear some opinions...over the weekend...trying to get our thinkers thinking...

Great start Prof. I think I posted something like this a while ago in a thread where it got lost. Our country when focused on an issue is the most powerful country in the world.

I'm not going to debate the politics on this issue because I would rather hear what people might have to say. All have to agree that oil is not the future of this planet. We only have a limited amount of this fuel source and everyone has to agree on this. What we need is energy that is not limited to our planet. We need a renewable power source for everything.

So with my limited knowledge I'll post a little on some alternatives.

Wind power to generate electricity is good for places in the mid west that have large areas of land and a constant wind to drive the devices. I recently saw a clip on a guy that has created a wind turbine that can be used on the tops of New York City towers to generate power in the minimal winds that might occur there. This looked very promising and I did like the approach.

Ethanol, my only issue with this alternative is that it does take some of our food chain away to generate fuel. Most of the companies that are supplying this energy type are hurting this year because demand is so low and they can produce way too much to meet that demand. If for some reason this alternative took off what would it do to our food costs?

Solar is a good alternative, but it does depend on clear skies and at this point the efficiency is not great, but improving. We should do a lot more research on this alternative.

Hydrogen engines for cars does look promising and some car manufactures are working on this one. One of the issues with hydrogen is it's volatility. We might need to go back to having people fuel our car for us to make sure it is done right.

There are a ton of other alternative that I will try to research again this weekend and get back to everyone. There are lots of concepts that involve the moon to generate fuel which has it's own issues about who should control this possible power source.

Very interesting post Prof. Let's hope we can come up with some good conversations on this issue.

-jeff

 

[Black1]

Very interesting thought.... If we put $90 Billion into education, we could be the smartest nation on the planet.

But nothing PAYS like a good war.

 

[jelms]

Very interesting thought.... If we put $90 Billion into education, we could be the smartest nation on the planet.

But nothing PAYS like a good war.

Now now jake. There used to be a time we were the smartest nation on earth, but we have gotten away from the sciences in this great nation. I believe that is a great shame.

A lot of good and awful things have been invented due to war, but let's not talk about that.

-jeff

 

[Wifey]

Great start Prof. I think I posted something like this a while ago in a thread where it got lost. Our country when focused on an issue is the most powerful country in the world.

I'm not going to debate the politics on this issue because I would rather hear what people might have to say. All have to agree that oil is not the future of this planet. We only have a limited amount of this fuel source and everyone has to agree on this. What we need is energy that is not limited to our planet. We need a renewable power source for everything.

So with my limited knowledge I'll post a little on some alternatives.

Wind power to generate electricity is good for places in the mid west that have large areas of land and a constant wind to drive the devices. I recently saw a clip on a guy that has created a wind turbine that can be used on the tops of New York City towers to generate power in the minimal winds that might occur there. This looked very promising and I did like the approach.

Answer, Wind Power is Great , but, moving parts are a conscious and costly. ( I Know, Had one)

Here is one way that will help, but, someone like Standard Oil Will buy it and shelve it.

http://www.vtcoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16508&highlight=hydrogen+engine


Ethanol, my only issue with this alternative is that it does take some of our food chain away to generate fuel. Most of the companies that are supplying this energy type are hurting this year because demand is so low and they can produce way too much to meet that demand. If for some reason this alternative took off what would it do to our food costs?


Answer. It can help, however, ask Mexico , Brazil , and other countries about the amount of pollution required to make it Not counting the Bad Mileage


Solar is a good alternative, but it does depend on clear skies and at this point the efficiency is not great, but improving. We should do a lot more research on this alternative.

Answer. In Sunny states it is the answer. Texas Instruments(along with So. Cal. Edison) started that project about 15 years or more ago.............Shelved Again

Hydrogen engines for cars does look promising and some car manufactures are working on this one. One of the issues with hydrogen is it's volatility. We might need to go back to having people fuel our car for us to make sure it is done right.

Answer. See above..................But it take a lot of electricity to crack a hydrogen molecule. Solar Power would help this!!!!!

There are a ton of other alternative that I will try to research again this weekend and get back to everyone. There are lots of concepts that involve the moon to generate fuel which has it's own issues about who should control this possible power source.

Answer .This guy figured this out and was Murdered

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9JagAv2nUE

Answer. Nuclear ........Cold Fusion is the Ultimate Power Source, make more than we could use, and making aluminum would become almost costless. We currently import most of our Bauxite cause we don't really have any, although all dirt contains about 3% of it. Cold Fusion would make it More than practical to mine in the USA........................We can only hope!!!!
Very interesting post Prof. Let's hope we can come up with some good conversations on this issue.

-jeff

Jerry

 

[devildog02]

An engineer I work with and few others are going to start messing around with Hydrogen powered ICE's! Can't wait sounds like fun! If anyone know's where to get 3500/4000 PSI "Carbin Fiber" tanks cheap please post up or send a PM! We are going to start with a 1 cyl engine and go from there!
As for the Wind energy side of things. "Clipper Wind" The company i work for has announced that it will be building a 7.5 Mega Watt "off shore" version, and a 10 Mega Watt "land based model"! We will also continue to make our 2.5 MW "Liberty turbine" here in Iowa! Our 2.5 Mega Watt Liberty turbin produces enough energy to sustain 1000 "average homes" annually!:rock:

 

[Bone]

Were we to put into energy research the same amount we put into Iraq each year

Ohhh, pick on the military....why not major entitlements, welfare, health care....




Military expenditures - percent of GDP 2007

http://www.photius.com/rankings/military/military_expenditures_percent_of_gdp_2007_0.html

There is a return on military spending in terms of technology (yes, science), US contractor support, efficiency of energy and fuels, comunications, let alone safety and security.

 

[Wifey]

An engineer I work with and few others are going to start messing around with Hydrogen powered ICE's! Can't wait sounds like fun! If anyone know's where to get 3500/4000 PSI "Carbin Fiber" tanks cheap please post up or send a PM! We are going to start with a 1 cyl engine and go from there!
As for the Wind energy side of things. "Clipper Wind" The company i work for has announced that it will be building a 7.5 Mega Watt "off shore" version, and a 10 Mega Watt "land based model"! We will also continue to make our 2.5 MW "Liberty turbine" here in Iowa! Our 2.5 Mega Watt Liberty turbin produces enough energy to sustain 1000 "average homes" annually!:rock:

What is the maintenance schedule like, and the life expectancy:dontknow:

Oh, and cost per kilowatt over that time.

 

[devildog02]

What is the maintenance schedule like, and the life expectancy:dontknow:

Oh, and cost per kilowatt over that time.

From what i understand all maintenance is included in the price, and our 2.5 MW is designed to last up to 30 years and i believe the warranty is for 20! as for the new models i have know idea I have heard that 7.5 MW is a joint venture with BP and will be produce in Europe:dontknow: and our 10 MW will be produced here in the states, might be here in Iowa but it requires a new building that can sustain the weight. Our current facility is the largest in the world! but we max out the structural integrity, our gearboxes alone are 94,500lbs! Oh and the cost on a 2.5 MW is 2.5 million. not sure on the larger ones as we dont offer them yet.
Headquarters is in Carpentria Ca. im sure i spelled that wrong. Jim Dehlsen started the company. He sold a design to GE years ago that they still make and sell.

 

[devildog02]

Forgot to answer your question on kilowatt. The way i understand it is your state sets the mark, most states are under what your "Alliant Energy Bill" says. How ever some states have the minimum set at what they charge the customer, whats on your "Alliant energy bill". Otherwise they can give you what ever they want, but they have to give you somthing. I have a feeling some things will change in the future! From what i've been told at work, 1 2.5 MW Liberty will generate 400k income a year. I cant afford one so i cant say for sure, but that is what i was told by my superiors. If you have any other questions please ask and i will do my best to ask the right people "at work" and get an answer! I think we have some plans to put up some Liberty's in california, at the "turbine graveyard"! Hope all that made sence!

 

[Wifey]

From what i understand all maintenance is included in the price, and our 2.5 MW is designed to last up to 30 years and i believe the warranty is for 20! as for the new models i have know idea I have heard that 7.5 MW is a joint venture with BP and will be produce in England:dontknow: and our 10 MW will be produced here in the states, might be here in Iowa but it requires a new building that can sustain the weight. Our current facility is the largest in the world! but we max out the structural integrity, our gearboxes alone are 94,500lbs! Oh and the cost on a 2.5 MW is 2.5 million. not sure on the larger ones as we dont offer them yet.
Headquarters is in Carpentria Ca. im sure i spelled that wrong. Jim Dehlsen started the company. He sold a design to GE years ago that they still make and sell.

Carpinteria is about 150 miles from here, nice place :rock: :rock:

Saw your pics of the Plant and the assemblies........Mind boggleing how big they are getting.

There is a farm full of them in Tahachapi (spelling) about 80 miles, and the farm down south by Palm Springs,about the 80 miles.

Think I will order the 2.5 model, that should light up the house

 

[devildog02]

Carpinteria is about 150 miles from here, nice place :rock: :rock:

Saw your pics of the Plant and the assemblies........Mind boggleing how big they are getting.

There is a farm full of them in Tahachapi (spelling) about 80 miles, and the farm down south by Palm Springs,about the 80 miles.

Think I will order the 2.5 model, that should light up the house

I work 2nd shift, and we are having a bus trip up to wind farm here in Iowa in the morning! We have 40 or so turbins their, I don't know how im going to get up to go but I am! Im taking a dig. camera so i should have bunch of pics tomorrow night! I have never seen one of ours in person, and in the air! Ill try to post up some vid and pics tomorrow night! I'm still not tired at all
Hey did i read a post from you about old skuba tanks for sale?

 

[Wifey]

I work 2nd shift, and we are having a bus trip up to wind farm here in Iowa in the morning! We have 40 or so turbins their, I don't know how im going to get up to go but I am! Im taking a dig. camera so i should have bunch of pics tomorrow night! I have never seen one of ours in person, and in the air! Ill try to post up some vid and pics tomorrow night! I'm still not tired at all
Hey did i read a post from you about old skuba tanks for sale?

I hope you have a great time on your bus trip! Can't wait to see the pics. It isn't industrial espionage is it?? I have seen some of these big babies on Huell Howser's California's Gold. It used to come in on our local Public TV channel. (Rabbit ears ya know)

Scuba tanks - yeah, I got scuba tanks. They are OLD. 72 cu. ft 1800-2250 psi jobs like Mike Nelson used with his two hose regulator Jerry still uses them when he dives (see helmet avatar for era pics) Seriously, he was certified for scuba in 1964 and can't let go of the OLD. :dontknow:

This might give you some idea .............

 

[Prof]

Once had a kernel of an idea that kind of never got hatched...

Wind mills in shallow off shore salt water locations. Structures would not be intrusive if located several miles off shore on the continental shelf, would also provide new sub-structure for fish attraction (artificial reefs), could possibly be used as structure for tidal movement energy production...

What ever happened to the news of successful cold fusion in a lab at...was it the University of Utah???

Close to here is a development called Prairie Crossing...they use geothermal heating and cooling in each house to augment their heating and cooling systems, homes are built with 2x6 rather than 2x4's to allow for the use of more insulation in walls and ceilings...homes are designed as 200 year structures...

Lots of great concepts are surfacing here...lets keep the ideas going...we will get to the hard issues later (no doubt)!

Fun Stuff!

 

[devildog02]

Once had a kernel of an idea that kind of never got hatched...

Wind mills in shallow off shore salt water locations. Structures would not be intrusive if located several miles off shore on the continental shelf, would also provide new sub-structure for fish attraction (artificial reefs), could possibly be used as structure for tidal movement energy production...

What ever happened to the news of successful cold fusion in a lab at...was it the University of Utah???

Close to here is a development called Prairie Crossing...they use geothermal heating and cooling in each house to augment their heating and cooling systems, homes are built with 2x6 rather than 2x4's to allow for the use of more insulation in walls and ceilings...homes are designed as 200 year structures...

Lots of great concepts are surfacing here...lets keep the ideas going...we will get to the hard issues later (no doubt)!

Fun Stuff!

The idea's are already here. Wind turbins have been around for a quite a while, and they ability to make H2 is even older, late 1800's i think! Instead of re-inventing the wheel: why don't we take what we have already proven works and advance form there. I'm not trying to hijack your thread!!! Your the man in my book! May i ask you questions about Hydrogen in the future? We could sure use some help! Yeah I know the best advice is not to blow ourselves up! But i think we can do this! we even have a rebuilt "non Clipper" wind turbine to produce H2. We also have 2 motorcycles to test and 1 car, a 4 cyl festiva, and a couple boat motors! To start we won't produce our own Hydrogen, rather buy it. Then well you know how it goes! The more people we can get involved for advice the better!

 

[Prof]

My attempt in the previous post is to push the idea of combined technologies, possibly, solar, wind, tidal in a configuration that would not be intrusive to neighbors, would be an advantage to environmentalists, and sportsmen.

I think that some of the NIMBY issues are what give us fits...recycling of garbage in England has become common place without smell or filth...and the product is wonderful soil for all of the window flower pots that seem to be so popular...proposing a bionic recycling plant in my neighborhood would turn my neighbors into urban guerrillas opposed to anything new in their back yards.

The concept is to use space that is not treasured by huge numbers of influential people; we need incentives to be sure that those that are concerned have their concerns attended to and they need to be aware of the built in benefits...when push comes to shove, we need to be able to offset every negative with a tangible benefit.

Thinking and reading about H.

 

[OCBob]

Solar power is great for residential use, at least here in SoCal. They are developing around here like crazy, increasing the number of residents at least tenfold in a few years. I believe that the planners and government officials who have ok'ed this rapid and overbearing growth should mandate that every new home built be solar equipped. At least that way when it is 115 in August we won't be subjected to blackouts because of the drain on the system. Seems they have forgotten that you need an infrastructure for a society. (but that's another rant altogether)

I'm sure the costs are way prohibitive, but can you imagine cars running on tiny little reactors? Never have to refuel and last a long, long time. Of course, there would be safety issues involved, as well as what to do with the spent fuel, but it would be cool.

 

[Kevan]

If we put $90 Billion into education, we could be the smartest nation on the planet.

If we put $20 billion into education we'd be she smartest nation on the planet.

What ever happened to the news of successful cold fusion in a lab at...was it the University of Utah???

I remember this, Roy! I was fascinated when I first read the story years ago. Haven't heard of any recent activity though.

 

[OCBob]

Here is some good reading on cold fusion. It's way too long to post.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/6.11/coldfusion_pr.html

 

[Prof]

I'm sure the costs are way prohibitive, but can you imagine cars running on tiny little reactors? Never have to refuel and last a long, long time. Of course, there would be safety issues involved, as well as what to do with the spent fuel, but it would be cool.

Ok...just how do you add boost to a reactor powered car? Hire a terrorist?

Sorry...just bubbled out of my mouth...