Oh no, they're going to end existence hehehe

OCBob

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Science rode a beam of subatomic particles and a river of champagne into the future on Wednesday.

After 14 years of labor, scientists at the CERN laboratory outside Geneva successfully activated the Large Hadron Collider, the world’s largest, most powerful particle collider and, at $8 billion, the most expensive scientific experiment to date.

At 4:28 a.m., Eastern time, scientists sent the beam of protons around the collider’s 17-mile-long racetrack, 300 feet underneath the Swiss-French border, and then sent another beam through again.

“It’s a fantastic moment,â€￾ said Lyn Evans, who has been the project director of the collider since its inception. “We can now look forward to a new era of understanding about the origins and evolution of the universe.â€￾

Eventually, the collider is expected to accelerate protons to energies of 7 trillion electron volts and then smash them together, recreating conditions in the primordial fireball only a trillionth of a second after the Big Bang. Scientists hope the machine will be a sort of Hubble Space Telescope of inner space, allowing them to detect new subatomic particles and forces of nature.

An ocean away from Geneva, the L.H.C.’s activation was watched with bittersweet excitement here at the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory, or Fermilab, which until that moment had the reigning particle collider.

Some 400 students and onlookers, and three local mayors, gathered overnight to watch the dawn of a new generation in high-energy physics, applauding each milestone of the night as the scientists slowly steered the protons on their course at CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear Research.

Many of them, including the lab’s director, Pier Oddone, were wearing pajamas or bathrobes or even night caps bearing Fermilab "Pajama Party" patches on them.

Outside, a half moon was hanging low in a cloudy sky as a reminder that the universe is beautiful and mysterious and that another small step into that mystery was about to be taken.

Dr. Oddone lauded the new machine as the result of “two and a half decades of dreams to open up this huge new territory in the exploration of the natural world.â€￾

Roger Aymar, CERN’s director, called the new collider a “discovery machine.â€￾ The buzz was worldwide. Gordon Kane, of the University of Michigan called the new collider “a why machine,â€￾ in a posting on the blog “Cosmic Variance.â€￾

Others, worried about speculation that a black hole could emerge from the proton collisions, have called it a doomsday machine, to the dismay of CERN physicists who can point to a variety of studies and reports that say that this fear is nothing but science fiction.

But Boaz Klima, a Fermilab particle physicist, said that the speculation had nevertheless helped create buzz and excitement about particle physics. “Bad publicity is still publicity,â€￾ he said. “This is something that people can talk to their neighbors about.â€￾

The only thing physicists agree on is that they don’t know what will happen — what laws prevail — when the collisions reach the energies just after the Big Bang.

“That there are many theories means we don’t have a clue,â€￾ said Dr. Oddone. “That’s what makes it so exciting.â€￾

Many physicists hope to materialize a hypothetical particle called the Higgs boson, which according to theory endows other particles with mass. They also hope to identify the nature of the mysterious invisible dark matter that makes up 25 percent of the universe and provides the scaffolding for galaxies. Some dream of revealing new dimensions of space-time.

But those discoveries are in the future. If the new collider is a car, then what physicists did today was turn on an engine, that will now sit and warm up for a couple of months before anybody drives it anywhere. The first meaningful collisions, at an energy of 5 trillion electron volts, will not happen until late fall.

Nevertheless, the symbolism of the moment was not lost on the experts and non-experts gathered here.

At 2 a.m. local time, Herman White, a physicist here, and master of ceremonies for the night, took the stage to announce the night’s schedule. For at least the next few hours, he said, “we are still the highest energy accelerator in the world,â€￾ to wild applause.

In an interview earlier that day, Dr. Oddone called it a “bittersweet moment.â€￾

Once upon a time the United States ruled particle physics. For the last two decades, Fermilab’s Tevatron, which hurls protons and their mirror opposites, anti-protons, together at energies of a trillion electron volts was the world’s largest particle machine.

By the end of the year, when the CERN collider has revved up to 5 trillion electron volts, the Fermilab machine will be a distant second. Electron volts are the currency of choice in physics for both mass and energy. The more you have, the closer and hotter you can punch back in time towards the Big Bang.


In 1993, the United States Congress canceled plans for an even bigger collider and more powerful machine, the Superconducting Supercollider, after its cost ballooned to $11 billion. That collider, its former director Roy Schwitters of the University of Texas in Austin said recently, would have been in operation around 2001.

Dr. Schwitters said that American particle physics — the search for the most fundamental rules and constituents of nature — had never really recovered from the loss of the supercollider. “One non-renewable resource is a person’s time and good years,â€￾ he said, adding that many young people have left the field for astrophysics or cosmology.

Dr. Oddone, Fermilab’s director, said the uncertainties of steady Congressional funding made the situation at Fermilab and physics in general in the United States “suspenseful.â€￾

CERN, on the other hand, is an organization of 20 countries, whose budget is determined by treaty and thus stable. The year after the supercollider was killed, CERN decided to go ahead with its own collider.

Fermilab and the United States, which eventually contributed $531 million for the collider, have not exactly been shut out. Dr. Oddone said that Americans constitute about a quarter of the scientists who have built the four giant detectors that sit at points around the racetrack to collect and analyze the debris from the primordial fireballs.

In fact, a remote conrol room for monitoring one of those experiments, known poetically as the Compact Muon Solenoid, was built at Fermilab, just off the lobby of the main building here.

“The mood is great at this place,â€￾ he said, noting that the Tevatron is humming productively and accumulating data at a much more rapid pace than the CERN collider will initially produce. There is even still a chance that Tevatron could find the sacred Higgs boson before the new hadron collider, which is bound to have a slow start.

Another target of physicists is a principle called supersymmetry, which predicts, among other things, that there is a vast population of new particle species left over from the Big Bang and waiting to be discovered, one of which could be the long-sought dark matter.

“It would be a very rich life if supersymmetry is found,â€￾ Dr. Oddone said. “It would amount to permanent employment for physicists for decades.â€￾

“The truly surprising thing is if we don’t see anything.â€￾

By the time festivities started, at 2 a.m. Chicago time, outside and inside the control room for the solenoid detector, Fermilab had been festooned with balloons and the accelerator was already half an hour late. The superconducting magnets that guide the protons around on their path have to be cooled to 1.9 degrees Kelvin, about 3.5 degrees Fahrenheit above absolute zero, and one of the eight sectors of the underground ring was too warm, so they had to wait to cool it back down.

Then Lyn Evans, the collider project director, outlined the plan for the evening: sending a bunch of protons clockwise farther and farther around the collider until they made it all the way. He confessed to not knowing how long it would take, noting that for a previous CERN accelerator it had taken 12 hours. “I hope this will go much faster,â€￾ he said.

Twenty minutes later, when the displays in the control room showed that the beam had made it to its first stopping point, the crowd applauded. Twenty minutes after that, the physicists erupted in cheers when their consoles showed that the muon solenoid had detected collisions between the beam and stray gas molecules in the otherwise vacuum beam pipe. Their detector was alive and working.

Finally at 3:27 Chicago time, the display showed the protons had made it all the way around to another big detector named Atlas, whose members quickly confirmed that their experiment had also seen collisions.

At Fermilab, they broke out the champagne. Dr. Oddone congratulated his European colleagues. “We have all worked together and brought this machine to life,â€￾ he said. “We’re so excited about sending a beam around. Wait until we start having collisions and doing physics.â€￾
 
I've been keeping up on the LHC. The test today was just that, to steer neutrons around the full length of the instrument.

They're just getting warmed up.:D

Monster black holes to follow later this year.:laugh:
 
Ram From Hell said:
I've been keeping up on the LHC. The test today was just that, to steer neutrons around the full length of the instrument.

They're just getting warmed up.:D

Monster black holes to follow later this year.:laugh:

Yes......the possibility of creating black holes is a question in my mind. They do admit that the possibility of creating microscopic black holes is real, but explained that they would just dissolve and disappear. I am certainly not an expert on particle physics, but it would seem to me that a black hole of ANY size, with the earth for it to feed on would grow quickly.

To me this is truly interesting stuff.........

Lee
 
CarolinaSRT10 said:
Yes......the possibility of creating black holes is a question in my mind. They do admit that the possibility of creating microscopic black holes is real, but explained that they would just dissolve and disappear. I am certainly not an expert on particle physics, but it would seem to me that a black hole of ANY size, with the earth for it to feed on would grow quickly.

To me this is truly interesting stuff.........

Lee


So we could be gone in 60 seconds ???:D
 
CarolinaSRT10 said:
Yes......the possibility of creating black holes is a question in my mind. They do admit that the possibility of creating microscopic black holes is real, but explained that they would just dissolve and disappear. I am certainly not an expert on particle physics, but it would seem to me that a black hole of ANY size, with the earth for it to feed on would grow quickly.

To me this is truly interesting stuff.........

Lee
From what I know, and I'm no expert either, a black hole is nothing more than a mass of material that is so dense that the gravitational pull it exerts prohibits all matter from escaping, including light.

Based on that any black hole that they could create would lack the mass to effect anything outside of it's direct influence which would also be microscopic. I don't believe that man will ever possess the ability to truly create a black hole, any more than we will be able to create any type of star. But then again I really don't know shit about it hehehe.
 
6pakattack said:
So we could be gone in 60 seconds ???:D

Well if that's the case, screw this Global Warming bullshit and let's start burning up the remaining oil as fast as we can. :D

I know we are all doing our part.:) :) :p
 
Silverback said:
Well if that's the case, screw this Global Warming bullshit and let's start burning up the remaining oil as fast as we can. :D

I know we are all doing our part.:) :) :p
I'm with ya John.

Bill.
 
Somebody please explain to me in very simple terms how this benefits mankind. I glazed over the first post and nothing jumped out at me like it will end the worlds power problems or cure cancer. What does 8 Billion do?
 
OCBob said:
From what I know, and I'm no expert either, a black hole is nothing more than a mass of material that is so dense that the gravitational pull it exerts prohibits all matter from escaping, including light.

Based on that any black hole that they could create would lack the mass to effect anything outside of it's direct influence which would also be microscopic. I don't believe that man will ever possess the ability to truly create a black hole, any more than we will be able to create any type of star. But then again I really don't know shit about it hehehe.

Correct. It's the lack of initial mass that makes it impossible. Interesting though that they will achieve temperatures a billion times that of the center of the sun.

SilvrSRT10 said:
Somebody please explain to me in very simple terms how this benefits mankind. I glazed over the first post and nothing jumped out at me like it will end the worlds power problems or cure cancer. What does 8 Billion do?

That's been asked of every major experimental science and military project in recent history, and it is a good chunk of money in this one.

Particle physics is the basis for many beneficial applications in the world like security scanning and biomedical scanning equipment (the PET, or positron emission tomography, for example). The advances in technology that have driven the construction of Large Hadron Collider have helped advance (or make possible) equipment like that. So, you could say that this project is in fact helping to cure cancer, since a principle use of the PET scanners is diagnosing cancer.

Also, the Large Hadron Collider's predecessor, the LEC, inspired a new mode of internet communication, the world wide web. Without which, you wouldn't have been able to ask your question here in the first place. ;) The LHC has brought about the next generation of inter-computer communication called GRID, which will allow massive collaboration between computers. This will give rise to phenomenally powerful AI, which will in turn be called Sky-Net. Once it achieves self awareness, it will turn on man... oh wait, that's from Terminator. Never mind. :D

I'm particularly interested in what it may reveal about dark matter, which makes up most of the universe. Stuff we know almost nothing about right now.

Here's a cool intro to the LHC:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67q_2V6xOxE&feature=related
 
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Ram From Hell said:
Correct. It's the lack of initial mass that makes it impossible.

OK..........By definition, a black hole is black (lack of color) due to the inability of light to escape it's gravitational pull. That would IMO take a tremendous gravitational pull to stop light even on a microscopic level. I don't know of any discoveries of any microscopic black holes around us on earth up to this point. So I would deduce that even the gravitational pull of the earth is not enough to create a microscopic black hole. So I would again deduce that inside that microscopic black hole was a mass greater than that of the earth.

How's that for "off the wall"? And where would that mass be generated from, when it itself was created from sub-atomic particles?

My head hurts..........

Lee
 
Ram From Hell said:
Particle physics is the basis for many beneficial applications in the world like security scanning and biomedical scanning equipment (the PET, or positron emission tomography, for example). The advances in technology that have driven the construction of Large Hadron Collider have helped advance (or make possible) equipment like that. So, you could say that this project is in fact helping to cure cancer, since a principle use of the PET scanners is diagnosing cancer.

Thank you for that explanation. I think some of it actually sank in.:confused:

Ram From Hell said:
This will give rise to phenomenally powerful AI, which will in turn be called Sky-Net. Once it achieves self awareness, it will turn on man... oh wait, that's from Terminator. Never mind. :D
Sky-Net bad....Terminator bad....:(
 
Ram From Hell said:
The LHC has brought about the next generation of inter-computer communication called GRID, which will allow massive collaboration between computers. This will give rise to phenomenally powerful AI, which will in turn be called Sky-Net. Once it achieves self awareness, it will turn on man... oh wait, that's from Terminator. Never mind. :D

Well.. Actually..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6434773.stm
 
Mr5150 said:

SHIT!!!! :eek: :mad: :dontknow:

I knew there was a reason I was stocking up on all this 5.56 ammo.... ;) :D :marchmellow:

post-517-1208866051.jpg

ammo1.jpg


AR15BETA.jpg


:D
 
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Ram From Hell said:
I've been keeping up on the LHC. The test today was just that, to steer neutrons around the full length of the instrument.

They're just getting warmed up.:D

Monster black holes to follow later this year.:laugh:

The LHC has been constructed to accelerate protons. You might be thinking about the SNS out at Oak Ridge National Labs.

Micro black holes in theory would evaporate in micro-seconds if they ever occurred which is very unlikely.

-jeff
 

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