Paxton intercooler question...

FSTJACK said:
Morning John, Morinig Jerry.

I guess I'm in trouble as I understood it....................:idea:
Click to expand...

thank you Sir. I tought is was rather simple and a very good explication on my side. :confused: :dontknow: :D
Ok, i calculate those every day.... :mad:
 
I would think a larger intercooler would cause a lack of PSI which would need to be turned up in order to compensate. By turning it up (smaller pulley) you would be generating more heat, defeating the purpose. Kind of a 1 step forward, 2 steps back theory. Without testing and true data we don't know for sure though...
 
RedSrt007 said:
I would think a larger intercooler would cause a lack of PSI which would need to be turned up in order to compensate. By turning it up (smaller pulley) you would be generating more heat, defeating the purpose. Kind of a 1 step forward, 2 steps back theory. Without testing and true data we don't know for sure though...
Click to expand...

don't know in which way you are thinking RED , but either :

1) if you mean pressure drop trough the intercooler : this has nothing to do with the external dimensens but with the internal routing .Could be 1 pass, 2 passes etc. So again for every flow there can be a solution fabricated given a max. allowable pressure drop.

2) if you mean the internal volume , the greater this is , the greater a pressure build up time will be but this is small i think seen the flow a SC can blow and the small volume of such a radiator.( and also the low pressures )
 
belgiumbarry said:
don't know in which way you are thinking RED , but either :

1) if you mean pressure drop trough the intercooler : this has nothing to do with the external dimensens but with the internal routing .Could be 1 pass, 2 passes etc. So again for every flow there can be a solution fabricated given a max. allowable pressure drop.

2) if you mean the internal volume , the greater this is , the greater a pressure build up time will be but this is small i think seen the flow a SC can blow and the small volume of such a radiator.( and also the low pressures )
Click to expand...
Correct, I was speaking #1 in regards to internal flow / dimensions and routing. Yes, a single or double pass can be fabricated, but going from what paxton has now (6" x 8") to a (guess) 2-3' x 3-4' would be such a drastic increase that I dont think single or double pass design (regardless) would be able to compensate for the pressure drop due to volume.

I looked in to this for some time, and was about to launch a very cool design, and still will...but it kinda stopped when I sold the truck. I actually have a few diesel intercoolers I got for the test.

Just my opinion of course :)

-Red
 
RedSrt007 said:
I would think a larger intercooler would cause a lack of PSI which would need to be turned up in order to compensate. By turning it up (smaller pulley) you would be generating more heat, defeating the purpose. Kind of a 1 step forward, 2 steps back theory. Without testing and true data we don't know for sure though...
Click to expand...

Well, it's not as simple as that either.

Not all of that pressure drop in an intercooler is due to flow restriction. You'll naturally have a reduction in pressure as a result of the reduction in temperature of the air charge. I believe that makes a bigger difference than has been hinted at here yet, especially with our engines.

Remember we're talking about one part of a system, so you need to think in terms of the entire system before determining if you're really going backwards. While a reduction in air flow to the engine is simple to relate to a reduction in potential power production, what happens with respect to engine efficiency due to the cooler, more dense air charge needs to be factored in just as carefully.

With the reduction in intake air temp, you can bump up the timing and accumulate less heat soak. The engine ought to be able to more than recoup in power what has been lost due to air pressure reduction.

It seems the obvious factor with intercooling is calculating what the maximum size of the intercooler should be, based upon the point of diminshing returns of heat transfer as compared with the increase air flow restriction. In other words, you reach a point that allows for the best cooling with the least flow restriction.

Anyone care to add to this?:dontknow:
 
Ram From Hell said:
Well, it's not as simple as that either.

Not all of that pressure drop in an intercooler is due to flow restriction. You'll naturally have a reduction in pressure as a result of the reduction in temperature of the air charge. I believe that makes a bigger difference than has been hinted at here yet, especially with our engines.

Remember we're talking about one part of a system, so you need to think in terms of the entire system before determining if you're really going backwards. While a reduction in air flow to the engine is simple to relate to a reduction in potential power production, what happens with respect to engine efficiency due to the cooler, more dense air charge needs to be factored in just as carefully.

With the reduction in intake air temp, you can bump up the timing and accumulate less heat soak. The engine ought to be able to more than recoup in power what has been lost due to air pressure reduction.

It seems the obvious factor with intercooling is calculating what the maximum size of the intercooler should be, based upon the point of diminshing returns of heat transfer as compared with the increase air flow restriction. In other words, you reach a point that allows for the best cooling with the least flow restriction.

Anyone care to add to this?:dontknow:
Click to expand...

Correct, I agree with you 100%. We were discussing just drop is PSI only...

But in regards to IAT's, when I went from 12# to 10#, I say a recorded loss of over 62 degrees in intake temps. I was about to advance timing 3 additional degrees before any recorded knock appeared. I made more power then the 2# of boost was worth, AND keep the wear and tear on the blower & other components down; also increasing driveability.
 
RedSrt007 said:
Correct, I agree with you 100%. We were discussing just drop is PSI only...

But in regards to IAT's, when I went from 12# to 10#, I say a recorded loss of over 62 degrees in intake temps. I was about to advance timing 3 additional degrees before any recorded knock appeared. I made more power then the 2# of boost was worth, AND keep the wear and tear on the blower & other components down; also increasing driveability.
Click to expand...

Exactly! That's why I was wondering about your comment of "1 step forward, 2 steps backward". It seems that it's just the other way around.;)
 
Well, I'm still at a loss on the right answer here. Seems to me that if you went with say a Banks Turbo intercooler there wouldn't be any loss, them diesel boys wouldn't put up with that. I still don't understand why more ain't better with respect to cooling and why you'd see an increase in PSI loss with a larger intercooler, if the intercooler was well built, which (presumably) aftermarket ones are. Am I missing the whole thing here???
 
OK,let me give this a shot.
Intake charge temp reduction is what your after!
I added an additional after cooler inline with paxtons Setraub unit.I also
thought about installing an air to air unit from an 04 Dodge diesel,bolt on
isn,t an issue,but airflow was in question!The air/water unit on the Paxton
flows pretty good,but if your looking for higher power levels,than more airflow
is in order.Now,when you lower the intake temp,you lower the boost pressure
What you lose in boost,you gain in oxygen volume.Although you bleed off
boost,you make more power(the more oxygen,the more fuel you can burn).
My intake temp never goes over 95 degrees,engine temp 168 to 170 degrees.
Im not very good at explaining things of this nature,but I know how it all works.I hope I added some useful info.
Looking forward to seeing litemup,s Paxton at moroso:rock:
 
Maybe this should be a different thread...but it does seem to be on topic...sort of...has anyone added water/meth injection to a Paxton system? i.e. Intercooler plus water/meth.
 
Prof said:
Maybe this should be a different thread...but it does seem to be on topic...sort of...has anyone added water/meth injection to a Paxton system? i.e. Intercooler plus water/meth.
Click to expand...

I will be, and I'm pretty sure that it went back on Nowwhat's rig too.

There is absolutely no disputing the benefit vs. performance loss (read "none") with this method. Injecting after the Paxton exchanger has done all it can, drops temps a bunch. I've even been considering a Cryo2 system on top of that for cooling the front-mounted exchanger to keep extra cool at the drags.
 
Ok, I had a conversation with one of our supporting vendors that knows about this stuff (I won't mention his name since I didn't ask him if it would be OK) on this topic and as I understood what he said, the air to air cooler would actually be better because it would not have any heat soak issues like the water to air one does. He said they do air to air ones commonly on big time Viper builds...I was thinking of using both, but he didn't think that would be a good idea...
 
Prof said:
Maybe this should be a different thread...but it does seem to be on topic...sort of...has anyone added water/meth injection to a Paxton system? i.e. Intercooler plus water/meth.
Click to expand...

Yes Prof, Mike and Myself had it.
 
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