Questioning legality of red-light cameras

Wifey

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Questioning legality of red-light cameras
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Red-light camera controversy heats up
June 26, 2010 5:14 PM
Tomoya Shimura

Orange County Appellate Court judges rule red-light camera images are inadmissible in court. Motorist says local judges twist arms to extract testimony.

“When they send (citations) out, they’re designed to get people to incriminate the driver, and the registered owner doesn’t have to do that,†— Allen Baylis, traffic attorney


VICTORVILLE • As Victorville tries to take out some of its unpopular red-light cameras, some defense attorneys say they infringe on people’s Constitutional rights.


Allen Baylis, a Huntington Beach traffic attorney, said the way the red-light cameras are used as evidence in court often violates the Sixth Amendment right to confront the witness.
An appellate panel of Orange County Superior Court judges recently ruled that photos and video submitted by police to prove a 2008 red-light ticket were inadmissible as evidence, the Orange County Register reported. The panel said the photo and video were just hearsay because no police officer actually saw the incident.


“You should be able to cross examine (red-light camera operator) Redflex to make sure they did their job properly,†said Baylis, who handled the case. “I have never had a witness testify that knew which Redflex employee processed the violation.â€


Baylis said it’s the third time the Orange County Appellate Court turned down red-light camera photos and video as evidence. Even though the rulings may not be binding in other counties, they should influence San Bernardino County court decisions, Baylis said.


“It’s certainly persuasive authority,†he said. “It’s simply applying California evidence code. There’s no new law here.â€


Kirk Riding of Apple Valley recently received a citation from the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Victorville station, asking him to identify the driver of his car when it was caught on a camera running through a red light.


When he appeared in the Victorville traffic court, a judge and sheriff’s deputies told him that he would be charged with obstruction of justice if he didn’t identify the driver, Riding said. Following his attorney’s advice, Riding kept refusing and the citation was dismissed.


“They threatened me with a criminal charge if I didn’t disclose who it was,†Riding said. “My lawyer told me that under the law, I was not required to be the state’s witness.â€


Baylis said he has also been pressured by judges, deputies and clerks to identify drivers in red-light camera photos.


“When they send (citations) out, they’re designed to get people to incriminate the driver, and the registered owner doesn’t have to do that,†Baylis said.


Victorville sheriff’s spokeswoman Karen Hunt said red-light tickets will be dismissed if they can’t identify the driver’s face.


Baylis encourages anyone who received a red-light ticket, which costs nearly $450, to do some research on the Internet or talk to an attorney before paying the fine.
 
This is a HUGE deal down here in FL right now.
 
I know this will rub against the grain but I wished they had the things at every light....running lights has seemed to become rampant....I am not talking about speeding up when the yellow light comes on.....I have seen 5+ cars keep coming thru the intersection seconds after they got a red signal......it is almost every light change I watch people run red lights.....
 
TNVIPER said:
I know this will rub against the grain but I wished they had the things at every light....running lights has seemed to become rampant....I am not talking about speeding up when the yellow light comes on.....I have seen 5+ cars keep coming thru the intersection seconds after they got a red signal......it is almost every light change I watch people run red lights.....
It's pretty prevalent here too. That's why when my light turns green, I still take the time to look left and right to make sure cross traffic is really going to stop. It may take a few extra seconds but they're seconds that have and will save my life. I have had to wait for a semi to come rolling through and intersection when I had the green light and the right of way.
 
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i always wait a sec or two when the light turns, too...that's good advice...

happened here a month or so ago...lowes truck or something ran through a light and killed a woman...pretty big deal...very unfortunate...
 
i have no prob w/ red light cameras.. not that hard to obey..after living in phoenix for 2 years that would change your mind on how you see them
 
The real gripe is the huge increase of rear end collisions at Red Lights where cameras are used.
Seems there are so many people panicking at the sight of a Yellow light and slamming their brakes on to avoid a ticket people are getting hurt at an unprecedented rate.:( :(
 
I think we need more technology to assist in enforcing traffic laws. The lights are going through the growing process...they will be ubiquitous in ten or 15 years. And the technology will expand to speed traps too.
 
don't forget to figure in the dumbs%#t cell phone factor.
:rock: :toilet: :rock: :toilet: :rock:
 
Prof said:
I think we need more technology to assist in enforcing traffic laws. The lights are going through the growing process...they will be ubiquitous in ten or 15 years. And the technology will expand to speed traps too.


so your in love with fascism?
that's all this is, another way to tax and control.
perhaps you would like it like the EU, speed cameras, red light camera's, congestion charges, soccer as our national past time.....
really.....?
 
I just have to think that if the trends on accidents involving people on cell phones, that cars will eventually have blocking devices that force you to be in neutral or stopped for a cell phone to work.

The numbers are scary bad now...its hard enough for me to concentrate when driving at my age...if you call when I am driving you will get my voice mail...what with short skirts, low cut tops and sexy vehicles...it is hell out there!
 
Prof said:
I just have to think that if the trends on accidents involving people on cell phones, that cars will eventually have blocking devices that force you to be in neutral or stopped for a cell phone to work.

The numbers are scary bad now...its hard enough for me to concentrate when driving at my age...if you call when I am driving you will get my voice mail...what with short skirts, low cut tops and sexy vehicles...it is hell out there!

hopefully something like that is in the works for cell phone useage. but the "older" cars out therre it will be many years before any improvments in cell phone related accidents drops.

yep summer time is very distractin, lol. :rock: :rock: :rock:
 
My girl got one the other day and they sent me the ticket in my name i was PISSED but i called the police station $85 fine no points . So what ever no biggie just another way to raise money . I mean you cant even argue the ticket it shows the truck at the red light then another pic of the truck in the middle of the road its crazy how it works ..
 
Wifey said:
The real gripe is the huge increase of rear end collisions at Red Lights where cameras are used.
Seems there are so many people panicking at the sight of a Yellow light and slamming their brakes on to avoid a ticket people are getting hurt at an unprecedented rate.:( :(
Then the person following is at fault for tailgating...:p
 
In NJ there are several laws that require the registered owner of a vehicle to ID the driver of their vehicle, if they are claiming it was not them, after recieving a ticket in the mail. One of them is passing a stopped school bus. I had a call at work where a parent filming her son boarding the school bus for the first time caught a Nissan minivan blow right by the stopped bus, nearly hitting several other kids. The tape was brought to police HQ where i viewed it, and was able to zoom in on the plate. A summons was issued to the R/O. She denied it was her driving, and told us she was not guilty. I remembered that another parent followed the minivan to a bank ATM machine shortly after the incident, so i requested the video from the bank.:p It clearly showed the woman driving the van, alone, 2 mins after the incident. Long story short, both videos went over well in court, after the woman swore under oath it was not her. She was found guilty, and charged with perjury.:aetsch:

Oh and as a bonus, the ATM video clearly showed her on her cell phone. Being that the violation was within the 30 day limit, the Judge ordered me to write her another summons for that. Opps.;)
 
FastSRT19 said:
In NJ there are several laws that require the registered owner of a vehicle to ID the driver of their vehicle, if they are claiming it was not them, after recieving a ticket in the mail. One of them is passing a stopped school bus. I had a call at work where a parent filming her son boarding the school bus for the first time caught a Nissan minivan blow right by the stopped bus, nearly hitting several other kids. The tape was brought to police HQ where i viewed it, and was able to zoom in on the plate. A summons was issued to the R/O. She denied it was her driving, and told us she was not guilty. I remembered that another parent followed the minivan to a bank ATM machine shortly after the incident, so i requested the video from the bank.:p It clearly showed the woman driving the van, alone, 2 mins after the incident. Long story short, both videos went over well in court, after the woman swore under oath it was not her. She was found guilty, and charged with perjury.:aetsch:

Oh and as a bonus, the ATM video clearly showed her on her cell phone. Being that the violation was within the 30 day limit, the Judge ordered me to write her another summons for that. Opps.;)
Good !
I am so sick of individuals who treat driving as an afterthought, and not the serious business that it is.
I was actually going to start a thread "Double yellow, it's not a suggestion". :p.............
Go ahead and make an appropriate stop at a stop sign, I've had drivers zoom around me!........... Rude, inconsiderate pricks and prickettes, who only feel remorse AFTER the tragedy, and then beg forgiveness.......
Or, how about the "drivers" (term used loosely) who cannot square a corner, and slice at a 45 to make a turn, nearly clipping a bumper or two?..............
Oh, and while i'm on the soap box, America is NOT a giant ash tray.
I applaud your efforts, Officer Fast.
 
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joemags54 said:
Good !
I am so sick of individuals who treat driving as an afterthought, and not the serious business that it is.
I was actually going to start a thread "Double yellow, it's not a suggestion". :p.............
Go ahead and make an appropriate stop at a stop sign, I've had drivers zoom around me!........... Rude, inconsiderate pricks and prickettes, who only feel remorse AFTER the tragedy, and then beg forgiveness.......
Or, how about the "drivers" (term used loosely) who cannot square a corner, and slice at a 45 to make a turn, nearly clipping a bumper or two?..............
Oh, and while i'm on the soap box, America is NOT a giant ash tray.
I applaud your efforts, Officer Fast.

Thank you Sir! When i go to work later i will think of you when i give my "Educational" speech to some (what i call) non-drivers...the ones doing everything BUT paying attention.
 

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