questions for those with chronic back pain

05RamSRTkid said:
The decompression has worked in the past for me and is quite relieving though since I have lost most of the feeling in my legs and especially my feet Im sure I wont be hanging by my toes, that is just hardcore. :D ive thought about that thing that you can lay on and turn upside down etc
hell bro, give it a shot:rock:
 
Also in addition to the gym is your mindset. Get your self so pissed off and focused on getting better. Don't let your injury beat you down.
 
BlackMamba50 said:
Also in addition to the gym is your mindset. Get your self so pissed off and focused on getting better. Don't let your injury beat you down.


I did for a while. I was in a real bad place for a long time. But now with things going as well as they are i am in a much better place. Finally settled in to a new place here in CO, I am finally getting good treatment at the VA and I am able to get out and enjoy the pleasures of life. I do like your idea though> get angry and go to the gym :)
 
I have a degenerated disk in my lower back. done everything except surgery. shots are good for about a month after the third one.

really what helps the best, heating it up in the morning, icing it during the day and alot of stretching.

my disk was shot at 27 years old, I was told to prepare for surgery down the road. but the pain will most likely always be there
 
BurntRubber said:
I have a degenerated disk in my lower back. done everything except surgery. shots are good for about a month after the third one.

really what helps the best, heating it up in the morning, icing it during the day and alot of stretching.

my disk was shot at 27 years old, I was told to prepare for surgery down the road. but the pain will most likely always be there

thanks bud. Seems more and more like that these injections are more of a way to postpone the innevitable (surgery) This all started when I was 19, im 24 now and though its better than what it was Im fairly sure that the pain will always be here. But as long as I can still walk and enjoy life a little I am ok with that.
 
Caution on the use of Cortisone, It will destroy the cartilage ( over time) in the joints if used very much at all. Doctors recommended no more than 3 of those shots :eek:
The Yettie has had 3 cervical fusions and has a bad disk at L2,3, and 4. He had shots and was warned about this by his nero surgeon.

Long life ahead, take the time to make the right choice for you and your future.
 
Wifey said:
Caution on the use of Cortisone, It will destroy the cartilage ( over time) in the joints if used very much at all. Doctors recommended no more than 3 of those shots :eek:
The Yettie has had 3 cervical fusions and has a bad disk at L2,3, and 4. He had shots and was warned about this by his nero surgeon.

Long life ahead, take the time to make the right choice for you and your future.

wow! thats an eye opener. Thank you. Thats where my problem lies from L1 all the way down. No fusions yet or mechanical devices in my back. ill definitley be taking some time and doing some extended research before I let the VA do this.
 
You really need to have an evaluation done by a private Nero Surgeon the Va
is not going to do you any favors.
This typical with All cartilage including the neck ,and back joints:(

http://www.caringmedical.com/sports_injury/knee_injury_and_cortisone.asp

SPORTS INJURIES
Knee Injury and Cortisone
The quickest way for an athlete to lose strength at the ligament-bone junction (fibro-osseous junction) is to inject cortisone to that area. Cortisone and other steroid shots ALL have the same detrimental effects on articular cartilage.

Corticosteroids, such as cortisone and Prednisone, have an adverse effect on bone and soft tissue healing. Corticosteroids inactivate vitamin D, limiting calcium absorption by the gastrointestinal tract, and increasing the urinary excretion of calcium. Bone also shows a decrease in calcium uptake with cortisone use, ultimately leading to weakness at the fibro-osseous junction. Corticosteroids also inhibit the release of Growth Hormone, which further decreases soft tissue and bone repair. Ultimately, corticosteroids lead to a decrease in bone, ligament, and tendon strength.

Corticosteroids inhibit the synthesis of proteins, collagen, and proteoglycans in articular cartilage, by inhibiting chondrocyte production, the cells that comprise and produce the articular cartilage. The net catabolic effect (weakening) of corticosteroids is inhibition of fibroblast production of collagen, ground substance, and angiogenesis (new blood vessel formation). The result is weakened synovial joints, supporting structures, articular cartilage, ligaments, and tendons. This weakness increases the pain and the increased pain leads to more steroid injections. Cortisone injections should play almost no role in sports injury care. Although anti-inflammatory medications and steroid injections reduce pain, they do so at the cost of destroying tissue. In a study conducted by Siraya Chunekamrai, D.V.M., Ph.D., steroid shots, of a substance commonly used in humans, were given to horses. The injected tissue was looked at under the microscope. The steroid shots induced a tremendous amount of damage, including chondrocyte necrosis (cartilage cell damage), hypocellularity (decreased number of cells) in the joint, decreased proteoglycan content and synthesis, and decreased collagen synthesis in the joint. All of these effects were permanent.

Dr. Chunekamrai concluded, “...the effects on cartilage of intra-articular injections of methylprednisolone acetate (steroid) were not ameliorated at eight weeks after eight weekly injections, or 16 weeks after a single injection. Cartilage remained biochemically and metabolically impaired.â€￾ (Chunekamrai, S. Changes in articular cartilage after intra-articular injections of methylprednisolone acetate in horses. American Journal of Veterinary Research. 1989; 50:1733-1741.) In this study, some of the joints were injected only one time. Even after one steroid injection, cartilage remained biochemically and metabolically impaired. Other studies have confirmed similar harmful effects of steroids on joint and cartilage tissue. A cortisone shot can permanently damage joints. Prolotherapy injections have the opposite effect—they permanently strengthen joints, ligaments, and tendons.

The problem with athletes is that they look for quick relief. The problem with cortisone is that the athlete may get pain relief, but it may be at the expense of permanent inability to participate in athletics. Athletes often receive cortisone shots in order to play. They go onto the playing field with an injury of such significant magnitude that they received a cortisone shot to relieve the pain. Unfortunately, they cannot feel the pain anymore so they play as if there was no injury. We know that the injury could not possibly be healed because of the tremendous anti-healing properties of cortisone. Thus the athlete is further injured from the cortisone, as well as playing with an injury, thereby worsening the already bad injury.

Cortisone is so dangerous to the athlete because it inhibits just about every aspect of healing. Cortisone inhibits prostaglandin and leukotriene production. It also inhibits chondrocyte production of protein polysaccharides (proteoglycans), which are the major constituents of articular ground substance. Behrens and colleagues reported a persistent and highly significant reduction in the synthesis of proteins, collagen, and proteoglycans in the articular cartilage of rabbits who received weekly injections of glucocorticoids. They also reported a progressive loss of endoplasmic reticulum, mitochondria, and Golgi apparatus, as the number of injections increased
.

Exercise has the opposite effect. Exercise has been shown to positively affect articular cartilage by increasing its thickness, enhancing the infusion of nutrients, and increasing matrix synthesis. However, the effects of doing them together were not studied until recently.

Dr. Prem Gogia and associates at the Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis, Missouri, did an excellent study bringing out the dangers of an athlete exercising after receiving a cortisone shot. (Gogia, P. Hydrocortisone and exercise effects on articular cartilage in rats. Archives of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation. 1993; 74:463-467.) They divided animals into three groups:

1. Group One: received a cortisone shot

2. Group Two: received a cortisone shot and exercised

3. Group Three: control group, received no treatment

This study was done in 1993 and was the first study to look at the effects of exercising after receiving a cortisone shot. The authors performed this study because it is common practice in sports medicine to give an athlete a cortisone shot for an acute or chronic injury. Athletes are typically returning to full-intensity sports activities within a few hours to one to two days after receiving the shot. The results of the study were unbelievable. The animals receiving the cortisone shots showed a decrease in chondrocytes, but when they received the cortisone shot and exercised, the chondrocyte cell count decreased by another 25 percent. Degenerated cartilage was seen in all of the cortisone-injected animals, but severe cartilage damage was seen in 67 percent of the animals that exercised and received cortisone. The cortisone and exercise group also showed a significant decline in glycosaminoglycan synthesis compared to the other groups. The authors concluded, “...the results suggest that running exercise in combination with intra-articular injections results in damage to the femoral articular cartilage.â€￾

Would you like information of how to be our patient? Click Here
 
http://www.arthritis-treatment-and-relief.com/cortisone-shot-side-effects.html

Cortisone is a type of steroid that is produced naturally by the adrenal glands. Cortisone is released when the body is under stress.
Natural cortisone is relatively short-acting.

Injectible cortisone is a synthetic product and has many different trade names (e.g. Depo-medrol, Aristospan, Celestone, Kenalog, etc.), but is chemically similar to the body's natural product. The most significant differences are that synthetic cortisone is not injected into the blood stream, but into an area of inflammation. In addition, the synthetic cortisone acts more potently and for a longer period of time (days instead of minutes).



Cortisone is a powerful anti-inflammatory medication.



Conditions for which cortisone shots are given include bursitis, arthritis, tendonitis, trigger finger, tender trigger points, carpal tunnel syndrome and other entrapment neuropathies.

The shot may be painful, but in the hands of a skilled rheumatologist it usually is well tolerated. Often the cortisone injection can be performed with a small needle that causes little discomfort. Sometimes though, a slightly larger needle must be used, especially if your physician is attempting to remove fluid from the inflamed area, through the needle prior to injecting the cortisone. Numbing medication, such as lidocaine or bupivicaine, is often injected with the cortisone to provide temporary relief of the affected area. Also, topical anesthetics can help numb the skin in an area being injected. Some doctors also “numbâ€￾ the area first with a small injection of lidocaine.

The most common side-effect is a 'â€￾steroid flareâ€￾. This is a condition where the injected cortisone crystalizes and can cause a brief period of pain worse than before the shot. This usually lasts a day or so and is best treated by icing the injected area. Another common side-effect is discoloration of the skin where the injection is given. This is usually a concern in people with darker skin, and is not harmful, but patients should be aware of this. Atrophy of the skin and thinning of the skin may also occur at the site of injection.

A potentially serious side-effect of cortisone injection, though rare, is infection. The best prevention is careful injection technique, with sterilization of the skin using iodine and/or alcohol.

Also, patients with diabetes may have a brief period of increase in their blood sugar which they should watch for closely.

By the same token, patients with blood pressure problems may have temporary aggravation of their hypertension.

Another possible side effect is inadvertent injection of the steroid preparation into the blood stream. Careful technique by the physician should prevent this from happening.

Tendon rupture can occur if the steroid is injected directly into a weakened or in flamed tendon.

Another side effect is not having the injection work because it wasn’t injected into the right area. This problem can be avoided by making sure of the skill of the physician.

Because cortisone is a naturally occuring substance, true allergic responses to the injected substance are rare. However, it is possible to be allergic to Betadine many physicians use to sterilize the skin.

Cortisone injection should not be given more than three times a year into the same area. Too many steroid injections can cause thinning of the skin, thinning of cartilage, and weakening of tendons. A serious side effect from too much cortisone is avascular necrosis of bone. This is a condition where the bone dies. It is most common in the hip, shoulder and knee. Multiple steroid injections can theoretically suppress the adrenal glands and lead to shock. Finally, if steroid injection doesn’t work, it shouldn’t be repeated.
 
yoga works, I do the P90X stretch video. you need to work on flexibilty from your heels up to you shoulders. no long distance running

i may try accupuncture. heard it works...

this is who i went to see. basically a doctor shouldnt do surgery on you because you are so young. you should exhaust everything else. stretching is the key and will help.

http://www.lispine.com/doctors/bio_mermelstein.shtml
 
Last edited:
wow thanks everyone that certainly is a lot of info. I am reading over everything now. My first surgery was done by a private practice doctor here in the Springs, though the army paid for it. I've been thinking of requesting a hard copy of my MRI films and results and taking them to him for a second opinion. From what it sounds like now the injections arent worth the trouble. I recently went through a month of physical therapy. everything from stretching to a needling therapy which involves sticking several needles about 6 inches into my back and up and down the legs. Hurts like a SOB but i did find it relieved a lot of the muscular tension which gave me a little better movement for a short time. Im starting a new routine Monday full of stretching and other exercises at the gym. Hoping by the end of August i see some improvement. Surgery is not an option at this point and I hope that through whatever I do in the next few months I can avoid it all together or atleast postpone it as long as possible. Thanks again everyone for all the info
 

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