Rear Differential.....problem

Chuck B

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Temps were only in the low 100's here in Phx so I decided to do some TLC. You know wash, wax, polish along with Diff, trans and engine oil change. All went smooth until I pulled the drain plug on the diff. What the?!!! Magnet was completely covered in metal. Not the normal sludge or small metal fragments. I'm talking pieces over an inch long....Doh!

I bagged and tagged all the metal parts. Refilled the diff and headed to my local dealer. Service agent immediate takes me back to the Lead tech who does a quick eyeball of my parts bag. Asks me how many miles (30K) and says its good enough for him. Meaning....Dodge will do a complete overhaul including new gear pack, bearings etc.

Of all the potential problems with this truck I was not expecting any from our Dana 60.

So how much is that extended warranty?
 
Chuck B said:
Temps were only in the low 100's here in Phx so I decided to do some TLC. You know wash, wax, polish along with Diff, trans and engine oil change. All went smooth until I pulled the drain plug on the diff. What the?!!! Magnet was completely covered in metal. Not the normal sludge or small metal fragments. I'm talking pieces over an inch long....Doh!

I bagged and tagged all the metal parts. Refilled the diff and headed to my local dealer. Service agent immediate takes me back to the Lead tech who does a quick eyeball of my parts bag. Asks me how many miles (30K) and says its good enough for him. Meaning....Dodge will do a complete overhaul including new gear pack, bearings etc.

Of all the potential problems with this truck I was not expecting any from our Dana 60.

So how much is that extended warranty?
OMG! - that sucks. :( Extended warranty is 7/70 I think...

Is this the dealer that has serviced it all along?
 
I've handled all servicing. Service mgr simply asked if I had been following the service schedule...I replied "schedule B and then some". He smiled and replied no problem we'll handle the repair. I was prepared to show reciepts but he never asked.
 
Dumb question here. If I replace my gears from 411 to 488 would that be considered a complete overhaul of the rear end or are there other parts in there other than the gears?


patrick
 
Patrick, A complete overhaul in his case would usually mean new gears, bearings and races and whatever necessary shims are needed to set up the rear. It also means pulling out the axles and carrier, making sure they have no abnormal wear and replacing those as necessary as well.

Greg
 
It could be an axle bearing also. Since they share the lubricant, I would be sure that they check them out too.
 
That sucks man, I have been contemplating changing the differential oil myself. How many miles on the speedo and is this the 1st time you've changed it.
 
Just to change the gearing is pretty straight forword. This would not be considered a complete overhaul...far from it. I'm very comfortable with tools in my hands but here are four reasons I won't and never have messed with Ring and Pinion:

1. Tools. There are a number of specialized tools required to do the job, most of which are not commonly found in the home shop. Though I must say having to go buy a new tool was never a real deterent!
2. Time. There are several inter-related adjustments that must be made, each affecting the other, so that time and patience are required as one “juggles” the adjustments to arrive at the best solution. You can’t just set one thing in isolation and move on to the next – as you change backlash, so you change pinion depth; adjust pinion depth and you will alter bearing preload and so on.
3. Precision. “Close” is definitely not good enough in gear set-up. There are exact specifications and minute tolerances that must be met – and with very good reason. The ring and pinion-gears are the place where all your engine’s power gets turned 90° - from the longitudinal axis of the crankshaft-driveshaft to the lateral axis of the axle shafts. Doing so places enormous stress on the differential carrier and gear teeth. In order to withstand these stresses without failure, the teeth on the ring and pinion must fit together, or mesh, precisely.
4. Consequence of failure. Fail to set up the gears properly - and deflection under load could cause a spike in localized tooth pressure, chipping or fragmenting the gears. Also, bearings that are improperly set up can overheat and seize. The damage caused by poor set-up can be quite severe - often destroying other nearby parts.

Until the axle is stripped down we won't know for sure the cause. As previously suggested, I'll put money on one of the wheel bearings. There was no noise leading up to this. Again another reason I believe it is a wheel or possible axle bearing. A ring and pinion problem will sing to the high heavens.

The Tech and I were on the same page in terms of what a complete overhaul included...everything out until you have two empty axle tubes and an empty pumpkin. As Silverback correctly pointed out the oil is shared throughout the axle. Once its contaminated the whole axle should be stripped, cleaned and replaced with new parts.

I'll be dropping it off on Monday. Expected to have it completed by Thursday. Then rims get dropped off at the polisher on Friday and then Saturday I jump on the FJR1300 and head for Monterey Ca for MotoGP. After the races (19-20th) I'll be spending 3wks taking the long way back to Phx. Thinking Oregon, Washington, ID, WY, CO and Utah....whoohoo! :)

As for changing the fluid....Service Manual states every 15K miles for our 248RBI Axle. Also, should note that Dodge wants Synthetic lube only with 4oz of anti slip lube added. Many folks, including parts counter persons, go with standard mopar GL5 with anti slip additive already included. Cheaper and more readily available but there's a reason Dodge spec'd this and I'll put more faith in their engineers than a parts counter person.
 
Last edited:
Chuck, You're correct in most of your statements of setting up a rear end gearset.
I've got the special tooling necessary to do the job. I've done many setups with not 1 comeback. If you decide you need gears sometime down the road drop me a line
 
Chuck B said:
Just to change the gearing is pretty straight forword. This would not be considered a complete overhaul...far from it. I'm very comfortable with tools in my hands but here are four reasons I won't and never have messed with Ring and Pinion:

1. Tools. There are a number of specialized tools required to do the job, most of which are not commonly found in the home shop. Though I must say having to go buy a new tool was never a real deterent!
2. Time. There are several inter-related adjustments that must be made, each affecting the other, so that time and patience are required as one “juggles” the adjustments to arrive at the best solution. You can’t just set one thing in isolation and move on to the next – as you change backlash, so you change pinion depth; adjust pinion depth and you will alter bearing preload and so on.
3. Precision. “Close” is definitely not good enough in gear set-up. There are exact specifications and minute tolerances that must be met – and with very good reason. The ring and pinion-gears are the place where all your engine’s power gets turned 90° - from the longitudinal axis of the crankshaft-driveshaft to the lateral axis of the axle shafts. Doing so places enormous stress on the differential carrier and gear teeth. In order to withstand these stresses without failure, the teeth on the ring and pinion must fit together, or mesh, precisely.
4. Consequence of failure. Fail to set up the gears properly - and deflection under load could cause a spike in localized tooth pressure, chipping or fragmenting the gears. Also, bearings that are improperly set up can overheat and seize. The damage caused by poor set-up can be quite severe - often destroying other nearby parts.

Until the axle is stripped down we won't know for sure the cause. As previously suggested, I'll put money on one of the wheel bearings. There was no noise leading up to this. Again another reason I believe it is a wheel or possible axle bearing. A ring and pinion problem will sing to the high heavens.

The Tech and I were on the same page in terms of what a complete overhaul included...everything out until you have two empty axle tubes and an empty pumpkin. As Silverback correctly pointed out the oil is shared throughout the axle. Once its contaminated the whole axle should be stripped, cleaned and replaced with new parts.

As for changing the fluid....Service Manual states every 15K miles for our 248RBI Axle. Also, should note that Dodge wants Synthetic lube only with 4oz of anti slip lube added. Many folks, including parts counter persons, go with standard mopar GL5 with anti slip additive already included. Cheaper and more readily available but there's a reason Dodge spec'd this and I'll put more faith in their engineers than a parts counter person.

A post like that scares me from letting my dealer do my gear swap! :dontknow:

They are the only place I could find to do the work.


patrick
 
Chuck B said:
Just to change the gearing is pretty straight forword. This would not be considered a complete overhaul...far from it. I'm very comfortable with tools in my hands but here are four reasons I won't and never have messed with Ring and Pinion:

1. Tools. There are a number of specialized tools required to do the job, most of which are not commonly found in the home shop. Though I must say having to go buy a new tool was never a real deterent!
2. Time. There are several inter-related adjustments that must be made, each affecting the other, so that time and patience are required as one “juggles†the adjustments to arrive at the best solution. You can’t just set one thing in isolation and move on to the next – as you change backlash, so you change pinion depth; adjust pinion depth and you will alter bearing preload and so on.
3. Precision. “Close†is definitely not good enough in gear set-up. There are exact specifications and minute tolerances that must be met – and with very good reason. The ring and pinion-gears are the place where all your engine’s power gets turned 90° - from the longitudinal axis of the crankshaft-driveshaft to the lateral axis of the axle shafts. Doing so places enormous stress on the differential carrier and gear teeth. In order to withstand these stresses without failure, the teeth on the ring and pinion must fit together, or mesh, precisely.
4. Consequence of failure. Fail to set up the gears properly - and deflection under load could cause a spike in localized tooth pressure, chipping or fragmenting the gears. Also, bearings that are improperly set up can overheat and seize. The damage caused by poor set-up can be quite severe - often destroying other nearby parts.

Until the axle is stripped down we won't know for sure the cause. As previously suggested, I'll put money on one of the wheel bearings. There was no noise leading up to this. Again another reason I believe it is a wheel or possible axle bearing. A ring and pinion problem will sing to the high heavens.

The Tech and I were on the same page in terms of what a complete overhaul included...everything out until you have two empty axle tubes and an empty pumpkin. As Silverback correctly pointed out the oil is shared throughout the axle. Once its contaminated the whole axle should be stripped, cleaned and replaced with new parts.

I'll be dropping it off on Monday. Expected to have it completed by Thursday. Then rims get dropped off at the polisher on Friday and then Saturday I jump on the FJR1300 and head for Monterey Ca for MotoGP. After the races (19-20th) I'll be spending 3wks taking the long way back to Phx. Thinking Oregon, Washington, ID, WY, CO and Utah....whoohoo! :)

As for changing the fluid....Service Manual states every 15K miles for our 248RBI Axle. Also, should note that Dodge wants Synthetic lube only with 4oz of anti slip lube added. Many folks, including parts counter persons, go with standard mopar GL5 with anti slip additive already included. Cheaper and more readily available but there's a reason Dodge spec'd this and I'll put more faith in their engineers than a parts counter person.

You definitely know your stuff - right down to the extra friction modifier..:D
 
Update...dropped the truck off at the dealer on Monday. While they had ordered all parts last week the carrier is not available anywhere in USA. Dealer stated that paperwork has been sent requesting a carrier directly from the assembly plant....timeframe will be 2 weeks before expected delivery.

I picked the truck up rather than leaving it at the dealership....especially since I'm leaving on months vacation this saturday....whoohoo!

I should be back on the road late next month. I'll post what we actually find as the source/problem with the rear end then.
 
mauiSRT/10 said:
A post like that scares me from letting my dealer do my gear swap! :dontknow:

They are the only place I could find to do the work.


patrick

Yeah it can be a lil scary, but procedure is nothin new to an experience dodge heavyline tech. When i worked at dodge, the guys did so many if i wasnt doing anything the heavyline tech would let me complete disassemble it including removing the races and takin apart the carrier. he then would walk me thru the assembly and check my work. the pattern was always on the money. just make sure you get a guy whos experienced and they wont let you down.
 
Good luck with the repair Chuck and enjoy the vacation, I'll see ya when you get back.
 

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