SCT tuner and E85

[NightRunner385]

I was wondering if the program used with the SCT tuner to modify the fuel mapping and timing curves has enough flexibility in it to use as a means of converting to running E85. I know that to accomplish this there would have to be several other changes made to the fuel system, including (but not limited to) upgrading to materials that are resistant to the corrosive nature of ethanol and possibly higher flow fuel injectors. I'm interested in the possible benefits of running E85 such as: more aggressive timing curves, higher compression potential via increase in mechanical compression using forged pistons or via turbo or supercharging.

 

[NightRunner385]

Some ethanol related reading if anyone is interested:

Ethanol Alternative Fuel - E85 Secrets
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/hrdp_0801_e85_ethanol_alternative_fuel/index.html

11 Companies Racing to Build U.S. Cellulosic Ethanol Plants
http://earth2tech.com/2008/06/03/12-companies-racing-to-build-cellulosic-ethanol-plants-in-the-us/

Cellulosic Ethanol
http://media.gm.com/us/gm/en/news/press_kits/07_e85_FallTour/CellulosticFactSheet.htm

Food vs. fuel a global myth
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-oped0506fuelmay06,0,481881.story

Ethanol Smear Campaign Exposed
http://domesticfuel.com/2008/05/15/ethanol-smear-campaign-exposed/

Algenol trains algae to turn carbon into ethanol
http://www.reuters.com/article/environmentNews/idUSN1032368520080611

Using some of this technology we could create jobs here in the U.S. and help us become energy independent at the same time; and the stuff has 105 octane--seems like a win win situation for hotrodders...:dontknow:

 

[FlyingLow]

I thought E-85 get worse gas mileage even though it is cheaper. How much have a savings is to be had on 1 tank? For the power and safety I'm willing to pay the extra $10 a tank.

 

[NightRunner385]

I thought E-85 get worse gas mileage even though it is cheaper. How much have a savings is to be had on 1 tank? For the power and safety I'm willing to pay the extra $10 a tank.

You are correct that while using E85 your fuel mileage would be less than what it is while using gasoline. However, would you rather send that extra $10 to someone in the Middle East or would you rather send it to someone working here in the U.S.?

The fuel to air ratio for E85 is greater than it is for gasoline, this means that for every part of air that goes into the engine a greater amount of fuel has to be added to that air using E85 than with gasoline. Gasoline uses about a 14 to 1 air/fuel ratio and E85 uses about a 9.7 to 1 air/fuel ratio. That part of using E85 is definitely a downside. That's the way it is, I'm not saying that E85 is some magical cure all fix with no downside. But if we look at the benefits vs. the costs--there are a lot of benefits that shouldn't be ignored.

Besides the energy independence issues to be gained by using E85 instead of gasoline, there are several aspects to E85 that benefit our automotive hobby. E85 has a much higher octane rating (about 105) that allows for a more aggressive timing curve and it also creates a cooler and thus more dense air/fuel mixture within the cylinder, and you could run much more compression or boost. Sure, cars built today are not optimized to run that high of an octane number, but what if we started seeing engines designed specifically for E85 with compression ratio's of 12 or 13 to 1 compression (or even higher)? Or very high levels of boost for turboed or supercharged applications? Check out the article from Hot Rod that I linked above if you'd like to read about the fuel's benefits to hotrodders.

Sorry for the long post, it's just that using this stuff seems like such a no brainer. It's like having racing fuel available right at your local pump--and it helps us gain independence from importing foreign oil. Isn't this what us hotrodders have been waiting for?

 

[TNVIPER]

I can already see food prices increasing....corn especially...I think the ethanol is just politics and wish they would leave it out of the fuel..but you are right..if a motor was modded for ethanol you would gain power...BTW...most of our oil comes from canada....

 

[Demon 8]

You are correct that while using E85 your fuel mileage would be less than what it is while using gasoline. However, would you rather send that extra $10 to someone in the Middle East or would you rather send it to someone working here in the U.S.?

What bothers me is how much OIL it takes to create the Ethanol. More than we use if we just fill up with the regular stuff. I agree its all politics. Electric is the better short term. Flux capacitors next

 

[NightRunner385]

I can already see food prices increasing....corn especially...I think the ethanol is just politics and wish they would leave it out of the fuel..but you are right..if a motor was modded for ethanol you would gain power...BTW...most of our oil comes from canada....

Are you saying that corn prices are going up because of ethanol production? Well, perhaps they are or will in the short term. Corn prices are also rising due rising oil prices due to increased demand for oil in countries like China and India. People in these countries are just starting to gain access to cars. What do you think oil prices will be like when every household in China has two cars? I'm more interested in the possibility of making ethanol from things other than corn. Cellulosic ethanol production (making ethanol from wood waste, yard waste, and by growing plants like switch grass) is just getting started. After all the gasoline industry has about a 80 year head start over ethanol. It's not going to happen overnight.

Oh, and I know that most of our oil comes from Canada. The link below has a really nice pie chart about mid-page that shows where we get our oil.

http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1215711977.php

Canada is the largest, but the combination of imports from Saudi Arabia and Venezuela (Hugo sends his regards) out weigh Canada's contribution. Are you saying that we don't have a problem because Canada is our largest supplier?

edit: That's kind of like saying that you don't have a heroin problem because your favorite dealer is a nice guy.

Now, back to my original question (not that I'm not enjoying the debate/discussion--after all this forum would be pretty boring if everyone agreed with each other all the time).

Can the SCT tuner be used as a means to convert to running E85?

 

[FlyingLow]

The SCT can control the A/F but I don't know what else is needed to for the truck to run off of E-85.

 

[TNVIPER]

From what I have read you will need to change sensors and other fuelm related parts...some plastics & rubber will be damaged by high concetrations of ethanol...

little reading on the subject..

http://www.ehow.com/how_2175751_make-car-engine-ethanol-ready.html

 

[NightRunner385]

Thanks for the link TNVIPER, some good info but seems mostly focused on carbureted applications.

As far as sensors needing to be replaced I guess it would depend on the "window" that they can operate in. Let's take a look at a few:

-O2 sensors(and catalytic converters)--according to Hod Rod article these are unaffected physically by using ethanol. Need to know if O2 sensor has enough "range" to adapt to different air/fuel ratio.
-Intake air temp sensor--should be OK
-Throttle position sensor--OK
-Our trucks don't have a Mass Air Flow sensor that I've seen, so they must use a Speed Density system using a Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor (does anyone know the answer to this one?)--should be OK physically as long as it has enough range to adapt to the new operating conditions concerning the air/fuel ratio.

Can anyone think of any other sensors that might come into play?