This Should Leave Your Brain In A Knot- Part 2!
- Thread starter Kevan
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wheredwhogo?
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they already did a mythbusters on this and it was supposed to air dec 12, but it didnt, now it is slated for jan 30th of 2008....
by the way, the plane will take off
by the way, the plane will take off
jelms
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ntw0rk said:You read the same thing everyone else did, and jumped to the same conclusion.
So from a relativity stand point the airflow over the wings is the same as standing still
Maybe not. Now that I remember my high school physics, we never talked about this in my three years as a physics major in college, is a plane pushes or pulled through the air?? This is a little different question, but made me think. If the engines are creating airflow over the wings like they are designed to do then it should take off. The engines are the key to this problem.So a jet is kind of pulled through the air based on the airflow. Where is my high school teacher when I need him
I've been doing federal financials too long-jeff
Myth Busters is going to test this on Wednesdays show!!
jelms
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ntw0rk said:
I'll tivo that one for sure
ACE
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NEW QUESTION
How far can you walk into a forest??
How far can you walk into a forest??
SilvrSRT10
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Half way. Because once you reach the mid point, your walking out.ACE said:
It flies.
If you think it doesn't, please tell me how the following can be true:
1] The conveyor speed matches the plane speed
2] The conveyor is moving at a high rate of speed, thus preventing forward motion of the plane
3] The plane is not moving.
Since if the plane is not moving, then why would the conveyor be moving??????
If you are comparing to objects moving, you must use the same reference object [i.e. the earth].
The wheels will be turning at double the forward speed of the plane, but since the wheels don't provide forward speed it doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter whether it is a jet plane, prop, push, pull whatever.
If you think it doesn't, please tell me how the following can be true:
1] The conveyor speed matches the plane speed
2] The conveyor is moving at a high rate of speed, thus preventing forward motion of the plane
3] The plane is not moving.
Since if the plane is not moving, then why would the conveyor be moving??????
If you are comparing to objects moving, you must use the same reference object [i.e. the earth].
The wheels will be turning at double the forward speed of the plane, but since the wheels don't provide forward speed it doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter whether it is a jet plane, prop, push, pull whatever.
SilvrSRT10
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BUSTED!! The plane takes off. So all who said it would fly were correct.
No! The prop does not create enough lift. Air moving over the wings creates lift. Wings not moving forward through air, No Lift. Learned that in school before I ever piloted an air plane. Taking off is easy, Landing is a thrill. bobbymac
interesting
Interesting. Not a physics major. A prop pulls a plane through the air. A jet does the same with a little push. Now for a rocket? It pushes 100 percent through the air. If a prop or jet has its brakes on when running up it will NOT go up into the air. Enough wind comes at a plane at planes lift off speed and it will go up in the air, IE back wards. Thats why they tie little planes down. bobby macjelms said:So from a relativity stand point the airflow over the wings is the same as standing still
So a jet is kind of pulled through the air based on the airflow. Where is my high school teacher when I need him
-jeff
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nycstev
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1sicponi said:
This is not correct.You can never really get to the center either. To get to the center( 1/2) you must get to the (1/4). Before you get a quarter way you must get an 1/8 way in . Before you get an 1/8 way in you must get a 1/16 way in etc..
TREKER
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It was on Mythbusters last night. Anyone see it?
I stand firm on this. Wind speed plays a factor. Not sure how much wind speed you need to create lift, but if a jet was facing into the wind on a conveyor in a windstorm, I believe the jet would take off. Without the wind, no. A prop plane does not produce enough lift by the engine pulling air over the wings alone to create enough lift. A jet engine pushes a plane but on a conveyor would not move so no air over the wings. You need wind speed for lift for flight, period.
200mph windstorm with either jet or prop plane on belt, take off IMHO. Hover at first, slowly turn plane until you have wind at your back, and your off.
Way I see it.
What did Mythbusters say?
I stand firm on this. Wind speed plays a factor. Not sure how much wind speed you need to create lift, but if a jet was facing into the wind on a conveyor in a windstorm, I believe the jet would take off. Without the wind, no. A prop plane does not produce enough lift by the engine pulling air over the wings alone to create enough lift. A jet engine pushes a plane but on a conveyor would not move so no air over the wings. You need wind speed for lift for flight, period.
200mph windstorm with either jet or prop plane on belt, take off IMHO. Hover at first, slowly turn plane until you have wind at your back, and your off.
Way I see it.
What did Mythbusters say?
SilvrSRT10
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TREKER said:
Myth: An airplane on a conveyor belt traveling in the opposite direction of the airplane at equal speed cannot take off.
That's why I said the myth was Busted. They proved that the plane would take off. They proved it both with a small scale radio controlled airplane and with a manned aircraft. Both took off with no problem. They even explained why people are having problems with the concept. It doesn't matter how fast the conveyor belt is going. It could be going 2-3 time faster in the opposite direction. The wheels on the plane are not driving it. The propeller can still pull the plane forward and takes off.
TREKER said:
Your missing the point...
The engine's job on any plane (Except maybe a model airplane) is NOT to move air over the wing per se. It's job is to move the airplane THROUGH the air, until lift is achieved.
If this was true, then a jet would not be able to take off in zero wind conditions....
The wheels allow the body of the aircraft to move forward, regardless of what the "ground" is doing. The wheels merely provide lower friction over the surface.
The plane will fly, regardless of what kind of engine.
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TREKER
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Watched the clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ul_5DtMLhc
Not impressed. Plane still was moving. I am not convinced at all. In fact, I think they did a horrible job with it. The speed of the plane was NOT matched since the plane was still moving and gained enough speed to take off.
The show is busted. I want to see that plane take off standing still. The plane was obviously moving faster than the belt since it was blasting by the cones..
For Mythbusters, a bad example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ul_5DtMLhc
Not impressed. Plane still was moving. I am not convinced at all. In fact, I think they did a horrible job with it. The speed of the plane was NOT matched since the plane was still moving and gained enough speed to take off.
The show is busted. I want to see that plane take off standing still. The plane was obviously moving faster than the belt since it was blasting by the cones..
For Mythbusters, a bad example.
sleeper
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You must be kidding, the wheels are not powered. The engine makes the plane move forward by the wind. You need to rethink this.TREKER said:
TREKER
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ntw0rk said:
My point continues to be that the plane must be moving and air flowing over the wings to generate lift to take off.
ntw0rk said:
Dont care if it was on skis over ice. A jet has thrust that propels it forward until enough air is over the wings to generate lift.
The plane will fly, regardless of what kind of engine.
I posted this earlier but I will say it again...
A jet plane facing into the wind with enough strength to generate lift would cause the jet to hover if someone was at the controls to maintain its position.
A prop plane would do the same thing.
Put a prop plane in a wind tunnel with strong enough wind that would equal the wind at the same time the plane would take off under normal conditions, someone at the controls, but not turning the engine on. The plane could hover in place or lift higher but no move forward. If the pilot were capable enough to turn the plane around, it would land or crash because no more lift.
I am still not convinced. Sorry.
TREKER
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sleeper said:
You must be kidding.
The idea is that the speed of the plane is to be MATCHED by the conveyor and not allow it to overtake it. The faster the plane tries to go, the conveyor matches its speed. That was not happening on the clip at all. The planes speed overcame the conveyor speed.
Prop air generated over the wings is not sufficient to generate enough lift. The plane must be moving.
Its the same as the ball being shot out of the gun moving in the opposite direction. If a car is going west @ 60mph and you shoot a ball out of the back of the car facing east. The ball just drops. Been proven.
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