Thomas Jefferson ?

THEWELSHM

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Does this look or sound familier???:dontknow: :dontknow:


Thought I'd help you with a history lesson of quotes: Today's lesson - Thomas Jefferson


We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Thomas Jefferson

Everyone knows that one, but here are some more from a Founding Father.

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson


To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson


My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.
Thomas Jefferson


I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.
Thomas Jefferson


I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson



thewelshm
 
He also said The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

PERHAPS the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not
YET sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favor; a long
habit of not thinking a thing WRONG, gives it a superficial
appearance of being RIGHT, and raises at first a formidable outcry
in defence of custom. But the tumult soon subsides. Time makes more
converts than reason.

As a long and violent abuse of power, is generally the Means of
calling the right of it in question (and in Matters too which might
never have been thought of, had not the Sufferers been aggravated
into the inquiry) and as the King of England hath undertaken in his
OWN RIGHT, to support the Parliament in what he calls THEIRS, and
as the good people of this country are grievously oppressed by the
combination, they have an undoubted privilege to inquire into the
pretensions of both, and equally to reject the usurpations of either.

In the following sheets, the author hath studiously avoided every
thing which is personal among ourselves. Compliments as well as
censure to individuals make no part thereof. The wise, and the
worthy, need not the triumph of a pamphlet; and those whose
sentiments are injudicious, or unfriendly, will cease of themselves
unless too much pains are bestowed upon their conversion.

The cause of America is in a great measure the cause of all
mankind. Many circumstances have, and will arise, which are not
local, but universal, and through which the principles of all Lovers
of Mankind are affected, and in the Event of which, their Affections
are interested. The laying of a Country desolate with Fire and Sword,
declaring War against the natural rights of all Mankind, and
extirpating the Defenders thereof from the Face of the Earth, is the
Concern of every Man to whom Nature hath given the Power of feeling;
of which Class, regardless of Party Censure, is
THE AUTHOR

POSTSCRIPT TO PREFACE IN THE THIRD EDITION

P. S. The Publication of this new Edition hath been delayed, with a
View of taking notice (had it been necessary) of any Attempt to
refute the Doctrine of Independance: As no Answer hath yet appeared,
it is now presumed that none will, the Time needful for getting such
a Performance ready for the Public being considerably past.

Who the Author of this Production is, is wholly unnecessary to the
Public, as the Object for Attention is the DOCTRINE ITSELF, not the
MAN. Yet it may not be unnecessary to say, That he is unconnected
with any Party, and under no sort of Influence public or private, but
the influence of reason and principle.

SOME writers have so confounded society with government, as to leave
little or no distinction between them; whereas they are not only
different, but have different origins. Society is produced by our
wants, and government by wickedness; the former promotes our
happiness POSITIVELY by uniting our affections, the latter
NEGATIVELY by restraining our vices. The one encourages
intercourse, the other creates distinctions. The first is a patron,
the last a punisher.

Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its
best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable
one; for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries BY A
GOVERNMENT, which we might expect in a country WITHOUT GOVERNMENT,
our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by
which we suffer. Government, like dress, is the badge of lost
innocence; the palaces of kings are built on the ruins of the bowers
of paradise. For were the impulses of conscience clear, uniform, and
irresistibly obeyed, man would need no other lawgiver; but that not
being the case, he finds it necessary to surrender up a part of his
property to furnish means for the protection of the rest; and this he
is induced to do by the same prudence which in every other case
advises him out of two evils to choose the least. WHEREFORE,
security being the true design and end of government, it unanswerably
follows that whatever FORM thereof appears most likely to ensure it
to us, with the least expence and greatest benefit, is preferable to
all others.

In order to gain a clear and just idea of the design and end of
government, let us suppose a small number of persons settled in some
sequestered part of the earth, unconnected with the rest, they will
then represent the first peopling of any country, or of the world. In
this state of natural liberty, society will be their first thought. A
thousand motives will excite them thereto, the strength of one man is
so unequal to his wants, and his mind so unfitted for perpetual
solitude, that he is soon obliged to seek assistance and relief of
another, who in his turn requires the same. Four or five united would
be able to raise a tolerable dwelling in the midst of a wilderness,
but ONE man might labour out the common period of life without
accomplishing any thing; when he had felled his timber he could not
remove it, nor erect it after it was removed; hunger in the mean time
would urge him from his work, and every different want call him a
different way. Disease, nay even misfortune would be death, for
though neither might be mortal, yet either would disable him from
living, and reduce him to a state in which he might rather be said to
perish than to die.

This necessity, like a gravitating power, would soon form our newly
arrived emigrants into society, the reciprocal blessing of which,
would supersede, and render the obligations of law and government
unnecessary while they remained perfectly just to each other; but as
nothing but heaven is impregnable to vice, it will unavoidably
happen, that in proportion as they surmount the first difficulties of
emigration, which bound them together in a common cause, they will
begin to relax in their duty and attachment to each other; and this
remissness, will point out the necessity, of establishing some form
of government to supply the defect of moral virtue.

Some convenient tree will afford them a State-House, under the
branches of which, the whole colony may assemble to deliberate on
public matters. It is more than probable that their first laws will
have the title only of REGULATIONS, and be enforced by no other
penalty than public disesteem. In this first parliament every man, by
natural right, will have a seat.

But as the colony increases, the public concerns will increase
likewise, and the distance at which the members may be separated,
will render it too inconvenient for all of them to meet on every
occasion as at first, when their number was small, their habitations
near, and the public concerns few and trifling. This will point out
the convenience of their consenting to leave the legislative part to
be managed by a select number chosen from the whole body, who are
supposed to have the same concerns at stake which those have who
appointed them, and who will act in the same manner as the whole body
would act were they present. If the colony continues increasing, it
will become necessary to augment the number of the representatives,
and that the interest of every part of the colony may be attended to,
it will be found best to divide the whole into convenient parts, each
part sending its proper number; and that the ELECTED might never
form to themselves an interest separate from the ELECTORS, prudence
will point out the propriety of having elections often; because as
the ELECTED might by that means return and mix again with the
general body of the ELECTORS in a few months, their fidelity to the
public will be secured by the prudent reflexion of not making a rod
for themselves. And as this frequent interchange will establish a
common interest with every part of the community, they will mutually
and naturally support each other, and on this (not on the unmeaning
name of king) depends the STRENGTH OF GOVERNMENT, AND THE HAPPINESS
OF THE GOVERNED.

Here then is the origin and rise of government; namely, a mode
rendered necessary by the inability of moral virtue to govern the
world; here too is the design and end of government, viz. freedom and
security. And however our eyes may be dazzled with snow, or our ears
deceived by sound; however prejudice may warp our wills, or interest
darken our understanding, the simple voice of nature and of reason
will say, it is right.
 
nature, which no art can overturn, viz. that the more simple any
thing is, the less liable it is to be disordered, and the easier
repaired when disordered; and with this maxim in view, I offer a few
remarks on the so much boasted constitution of England. That it was
noble for the dark and slavish times in which it was erected, is
granted. When the world was over run with tyranny the least remove
therefrom was a glorious rescue. But that it is imperfect, subject to
convulsions, and incapable of producing what it seems to promise, is
easily demonstrated.

Absolute governments (tho' the disgrace of human nature) have this
advantage with them, that they are simple; if the people suffer, they
know the head from which their suffering springs, know likewise the
remedy, and are not bewildered by a variety of causes and cures. But
the constitution of England is so exceedingly complex, that the
nation may suffer for years together without being able to discover
in which part the fault lies, some will say in one and some in
another, and every political physician will advise a different
medicine.

I know it is difficult to get over local or long standing
prejudices, yet if we will suffer ourselves to examine the component
parts of the English constitution, we shall find them to be the base
remains of two ancient tyrannies, compounded with some new republican
materials.

FIRST. The remains of monarchical tyranny in the person of the
king.

SECONDLY. The remains of aristocratical tyranny in the persons of
the peers.

THIRDLY. The new republican materials, in the persons of the
commons, on whose virtue depends the freedom of England.

The two first, by being hereditary, are independent of the people;
wherefore in a CONSTITUTIONAL SENSE they contribute nothing towards
the freedom of the state.

To say that the constitution of England is a UNION of three
powers reciprocally CHECKING each other, is farcical, either the
words have no meaning, or they are flat contradictions.

To say that the commons is a check upon the king, presupposes two
things.

FIRST. That the king is not to be trusted without being looked
after, or in other words, that a thirst for absolute power is the
natural disease of monarchy.

SECONDLY. That the commons, by being appointed for that purpose,
are either wiser or more worthy of confidence than the crown.

But as the same constitution which gives the commons a power to
check the king by withholding the supplies, gives afterwards the king
a power to check the commons, by empowering him to reject their other
bills; it again supposes that the king is wiser than those whom it
has already supposed to be wiser than him. A mere absurdity!

There is something exceedingly ridiculous in the composition of
monarchy; it first excludes a man from the means of information, yet
empowers him to act in cases where the highest judgment is required.
The state of a king shuts him from the world, yet the business of a
king requires him to know it thoroughly; wherefore the different
parts, by unnaturally opposing and destroying each other, prove the
whole character to be absurd and useless.

Some writers have explained the English constitution thus; the
king, say they, is one, the people another; the peers are an house in
behalf of the king; the commons in behalf of the people; but this
hath all the distinctions of an house divided against itself; and
though the expressions be pleasantly arranged, yet when examined they
appear idle and ambiguous; and it will always happen, that the nicest
construction that words are capable of, when applied to the
description of some thing which either cannot exist, or is too
incomprehensible to be within the compass of description, will be
words of sound only, and though they may amuse the ear, they cannot
inform the mind, for this explanation includes a previous question,
viz. HOW CAME THE KING BY A POWER WHICH THE PEOPLE ARE AFRAID TO
TRUST, AND ALWAYS OBLIGED TO CHECK? Such a power could not be the
gift of a wise people, neither can any power, WHICH NEEDS CHECKING,
be from God; yet the provision, which the constitution makes,
supposes such a power to exist.

But the provision is unequal to the task; the means either cannot
or will not accomplish the end, and the whole affair is a felo de se;
for as the greater weight will always carry up the less, and as all
the wheels of a machine are put in motion by one, it only remains to
know which power in the constitution has the most weight, for that
will govern; and though the others, or a part of them, may clog, or,
as the phrase is, check the rapidity of its motion, yet so long as
they cannot stop it, their endeavors will be ineffectual; the first
moving power will at last have its way, and what it wants in speed is
supplied by time.

That the crown is this overbearing part in the English constitution
needs not be mentioned, and that it derives its whole consequence
merely from being the giver of places and pensions is self-evident;
wherefore, though we have been wise enough to shut and lock a door
against absolute monarchy, we at the same time have been foolish


to finish the rest look up Thomas Payne " Common Sense ".
 
DevilDawg3097 said:
He also said The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

PERHAPS the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not
YET sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favor; a long
habit of not thinking a thing WRONG, gives it a superficial
appearance of being RIGHT, and raises at first a formidable outcry
in defence of custom. But the tumult soon subsides. Time makes more
converts than reason.

As a long and violent abuse of power, is generally the Means of
calling the right of it in question (and in Matters too which might
never have been thought of, had not the Sufferers been aggravated
into the inquiry) and as the King of England hath undertaken in his
OWN RIGHT, to support the Parliament in what he calls THEIRS, and
as the good people of this country are grievously oppressed by the
combination, they have an undoubted privilege to inquire into the
pretensions of both, and equally to reject the usurpations of either.

In the following sheets, the author hath studiously avoided every
thing which is personal among ourselves. Compliments as well as
censure to individuals make no part thereof. The wise, and the
worthy, need not the triumph of a pamphlet; and those whose
sentiments are injudicious, or unfriendly, will cease of themselves
unless too much pains are bestowed upon their conversion.

The cause of America is in a great measure the cause of all
mankind. Many circumstances have, and will arise, which are not
local, but universal, and through which the principles of all Lovers
of Mankind are affected, and in the Event of which, their Affections
are interested. The laying of a Country desolate with Fire and Sword,
declaring War against the natural rights of all Mankind, and
extirpating the Defenders thereof from the Face of the Earth, is the
Concern of every Man to whom Nature hath given the Power of feeling;
of which Class, regardless of Party Censure, is
THE AUTHOR

POSTSCRIPT TO PREFACE IN THE THIRD EDITION

P. S. The Publication of this new Edition hath been delayed, with a
View of taking notice (had it been necessary) of any Attempt to
refute the Doctrine of Independance: As no Answer hath yet appeared,
it is now presumed that none will, the Time needful for getting such
a Performance ready for the Public being considerably past.

Who the Author of this Production is, is wholly unnecessary to the
Public, as the Object for Attention is the DOCTRINE ITSELF, not the
MAN. Yet it may not be unnecessary to say, That he is unconnected
with any Party, and under no sort of Influence public or private, but
the influence of reason and principle.

SOME writers have so confounded society with government, as to leave
little or no distinction between them; whereas they are not only
different, but have different origins. Society is produced by our
wants, and government by wickedness; the former promotes our
happiness POSITIVELY by uniting our affections, the latter
NEGATIVELY by restraining our vices. The one encourages
intercourse, the other creates distinctions. The first is a patron,
the last a punisher.

Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its
best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable
one; for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries BY A
GOVERNMENT, which we might expect in a country WITHOUT GOVERNMENT,
our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by
which we suffer. Government, like dress, is the badge of lost
innocence; the palaces of kings are built on the ruins of the bowers
of paradise. For were the impulses of conscience clear, uniform, and
irresistibly obeyed, man would need no other lawgiver; but that not
being the case, he finds it necessary to surrender up a part of his
property to furnish means for the protection of the rest; and this he
is induced to do by the same prudence which in every other case
advises him out of two evils to choose the least. WHEREFORE,
security being the true design and end of government, it unanswerably
follows that whatever FORM thereof appears most likely to ensure it
to us, with the least expence and greatest benefit, is preferable to
all others.

In order to gain a clear and just idea of the design and end of
government, let us suppose a small number of persons settled in some
sequestered part of the earth, unconnected with the rest, they will
then represent the first peopling of any country, or of the world. In
this state of natural liberty, society will be their first thought. A
thousand motives will excite them thereto, the strength of one man is
so unequal to his wants, and his mind so unfitted for perpetual
solitude, that he is soon obliged to seek assistance and relief of
another, who in his turn requires the same. Four or five united would
be able to raise a tolerable dwelling in the midst of a wilderness,
but ONE man might labour out the common period of life without
accomplishing any thing; when he had felled his timber he could not
remove it, nor erect it after it was removed; hunger in the mean time
would urge him from his work, and every different want call him a
different way. Disease, nay even misfortune would be death, for
though neither might be mortal, yet either would disable him from
living, and reduce him to a state in which he might rather be said to
perish than to die.

This necessity, like a gravitating power, would soon form our newly
arrived emigrants into society, the reciprocal blessing of which,
would supersede, and render the obligations of law and government
unnecessary while they remained perfectly just to each other; but as
nothing but heaven is impregnable to vice, it will unavoidably
happen, that in proportion as they surmount the first difficulties of
emigration, which bound them together in a common cause, they will
begin to relax in their duty and attachment to each other; and this
remissness, will point out the necessity, of establishing some form
of government to supply the defect of moral virtue.

Some convenient tree will afford them a State-House, under the
branches of which, the whole colony may assemble to deliberate on
public matters. It is more than probable that their first laws will
have the title only of REGULATIONS, and be enforced by no other
penalty than public disesteem. In this first parliament every man, by
natural right, will have a seat.

But as the colony increases, the public concerns will increase
likewise, and the distance at which the members may be separated,
will render it too inconvenient for all of them to meet on every
occasion as at first, when their number was small, their habitations
near, and the public concerns few and trifling. This will point out
the convenience of their consenting to leave the legislative part to
be managed by a select number chosen from the whole body, who are
supposed to have the same concerns at stake which those have who
appointed them, and who will act in the same manner as the whole body
would act were they present. If the colony continues increasing, it
will become necessary to augment the number of the representatives,
and that the interest of every part of the colony may be attended to,
it will be found best to divide the whole into convenient parts, each
part sending its proper number; and that the ELECTED might never
form to themselves an interest separate from the ELECTORS, prudence
will point out the propriety of having elections often; because as
the ELECTED might by that means return and mix again with the
general body of the ELECTORS in a few months, their fidelity to the
public will be secured by the prudent reflexion of not making a rod
for themselves. And as this frequent interchange will establish a
common interest with every part of the community, they will mutually
and naturally support each other, and on this (not on the unmeaning
name of king) depends the STRENGTH OF GOVERNMENT, AND THE HAPPINESS
OF THE GOVERNED.

Here then is the origin and rise of government; namely, a mode
rendered necessary by the inability of moral virtue to govern the
world; here too is the design and end of government, viz. freedom and
security. And however our eyes may be dazzled with snow, or our ears
deceived by sound; however prejudice may warp our wills, or interest
darken our understanding, the simple voice of nature and of reason
will say, it is right.


And as long as results are expected, and individuals held " Accountable" Ce la Vie. The accountability issue, mandate, requirement is the breakdown:mad:

Potential Term limits may be the fix??:dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow:

thewelshm
 
kinda of scary that it was written over 200 hundred years ago almost like a prophet telling us what is to come and he hit it dead on. Replace english with american and king with president and house and senate. Scary because we know what needs to really happen.
 
DevilDawg3097 said:
kinda of scary that it was written over 200 hundred years ago almost like a prophet telling us what is to come and he hit it dead on. Replace english with american and king with president and house and senate. Scary because we know what needs to really happen.

Not really, because that was the cause of the revoloution!!!!!!!!! From a country of class distinction ( England) to what many call socialism ( and I do ) now is why America ( the new) learned the mistakes of the old! However modern living i.e Secular Progressive and real Liberal ( sorry to the left wingers out there) are stealing the souls and minds of the " Traditionalist" Americans including and not limited to Moral, Religious and Traditional Family values, ( the very reason I love this country as an immigrant) I sit on the fence being an immigrant and view both worlds I know and ponder what if??? some of this? , a little of that?

Time will tell:dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow:

thewelshm
 
THEWELSHM said:
Not really, because that was the cause of the revoloution!!!!!!!!! From a country of class distinction ( England) to what many call socialism ( and I do ) now is why America ( the new) learned the mistakes of the old! However modern living i.e Secular Progressive and real Liberal ( sorry to the left wingers out there) are stealing the souls and minds of the " Traditionalist" Americans including and not limited to Moral, Religious and Traditional Family values, ( the very reason I love this country as an immigrant) I sit on the fence being an immigrant and view both worlds I know and ponder what if??? some of this? , a little of that?

Time will tell:dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow:

thewelshm
that is the said reality that it is just as bad now as then. Also it would not bother me as much if they where not trying to destroy the only thing that keeps there power in check. What you started this post with every kid in america knew who ben franlin and thomas jefferson where and not the guys on the money. Roy can rip into me for this but he is in a different part of our educations in life. My wife is a 3-5 grade gifted math and science teacher. Kids are not being taught the truth out there for those who have kids go and actually read through there books, there is no such thing as biased anymore. talk about a liberal approach at learning.How do you create an obediant society. dumb down the learning and make everyone a winner. It is sad.Jmot:D
 
DevilDawg3097 said:
that is the said reality that it is just as bad now as then. Also it would not bother me as much if they where not trying to destroy the only thing that keeps there power in check. What you started this post with every kid in america knew who ben franlin and thomas jefferson where and not the guys on the money. Roy can rip into me for this but he is in a different part of our educations in life. My wife is a 3-5 grade gifted math and science teacher. Kids are not being taught the truth out there for those who have kids go and actually read through there books, there is no such thing as biased anymore. talk about a liberal approach at learning.How do you create an obediant society. dumb down the learning and make everyone a winner. It is sad.Jmot:D

It would appear you are corect IMOP, I came to this country in 1992, I have seen a lot of change, and feel We are all going to see more:dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: Personally I would like to keep the hope not the change!!!! My 2 cents

thewelshm
 
we are not so different, I am a half an immigrant and half a patriot.My ma came here in 1960 and my dads family has been here since the late 1600's which pretty much have since had a family member in every american war starting with the Revolutionary.Just tired of seeing this country go to shit by are so called leaders. I say we bring up a vote of no confidance in the House and senate and put term limits as you said to both. The president only gets 8yrs to fug or unfug something senators and congress get a lifetime to really screw us over. We need to take back the vote.
 
:rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: So where do we start?? "Count me in" Intersting in the amount of views this thread has had only us conversing:dontknow: :dontknow:


thewelshm
 
I do have a buddy that is in constitutional law, I am going to have him look into that. so If i disappear you know what happened:confused: :D
 
DevilDawg3097 said:
I do have a buddy that is in constitutional law, I am going to have him look into that. so If i disappear you know what happened:confused: :D


Ill keep the flag flying while you are gone:rock: :rock: :rock:

thewelshm
 

Great post!!!:congrats:

The writings of Thomas Jefferson and other founders demonstrate not prophecy, but an understanding of human nature and history.

It is also why we are probably going to have to resort to historic means if we are serious about righting the ship.



.
 
He also had a hand in composing the Boats and Ho's song on the Step Brothers sound track....I think he drove the boat :dontknow: :D
 
"How do you create an obediant society. dumb down the learning and make everyone a winner. It is sad."

Hard to disagree with that...

But I think that education is the way to build a questioning society. In my world encouraging critical thinking is the essence of education...teaching people to think for themselves and critically evaluate the thoughts of others is where freedom is maintained...but if you will look at the issues that arise here, there are very few that take the time to investigate the claims of others...many just buy into the comments without questioning the motives or the stated facts.
 
TheSickness said:
self fornication is free....cheapo :p

You should know El Dildo:marchmellow: :marchmellow: :marchmellow: :marchmellow:
 

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