Toggle Switch Wiring Help

[Kevan]

I'm trying to wire up the remote switch for the power inverter, but I'm having big problems with it.

The original remote switch is the size of a wall plate. That's not gonna work in the truck, so I'm trying to replace it with an LED-tipped toggle switch (glows red when inverter is ON).

The cable is regular 4-wire phone cable- Red, Black, Green, Blue.
The jack on the inverter is an RJ-45 size.

The toggle switch is SPST, with an LED tip. It's built so that the LED is lit when the power is OFF, but I can easily reverse that.
There are 3 connection tabs on the toggle.

I disassembled the original membrane switch and took some pics:
http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/...os/Inverter/?action=view&current=P1020380.jpg
http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/...os/Inverter/?action=view&current=P1020381.jpg
http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/...os/Inverter/?action=view&current=P1020382.jpg
(The GREEN LED on the original is for POWER. The RED LED indicates FAULT)

I have tried every combination of the wires and tried several different types of SPST LED-tipped toggle switches. Nothing has worked so far.

I have contacted the company that sold the inverter to me. Zero technical assistance.
I'll be calling the 800 number in the manual, but I'm not getting my hopes up. A pin-out diagram of the remote switch jack would be nice, though chances of them sending me that are pretty slim.
There's nothing online regarding toggle switches and 4-wire phone cable. My searches have turned up empty.

If anyone can help out, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Prof]

PM Stingray he is a wizzard with wire~!

 

[Kevan]

Yeah...hopefully he stops by.

I think part of the problem is that the original membrane switch is momentary. I'm trying to use a toggle that's "always on" or "always off".

Now...to find a momentary toggle switch, with an LED tip, that remains lit and in the 'up' position when turned on.....

 

[ILtemprd]

Yeah...hopefully he stops by.

I think part of the problem is that the original membrane switch is momentary. I'm trying to use a toggle that's "always on" or "always off".

Now...to find a momentary toggle switch, with an LED tip, that remains lit and in the 'up' position when turned on.....

I'm fairly sure thats the problem Kev. If a indicator is important to you, you can use a 3 position "center off" momentary toggle switch that will latch in a small relay that would illuminate a LED on the momentary "on" position, and de-energize the relay in the momentary "off" position. If the remote membrane switch is turned on and off by a press of the same button, you will need this style switch anyway. Just purchase a dual pole instead of a single pole to operate your relay.

 

[Kevan]

UPDATE

Vector Manufacturing DOES NOT have the pin-out information for their power inverters.
I find it odd that the company that builds them doesn't have the wiring information, but.....

Thanks for the post, Shawn. That was my next avenue. I'm also considering re-building one of my toggle switches so it's momentary. This will keep a consistent look for all the switches in the truck.

Updates as I get them.

 

[QueLocura]

Where do you guys learn all this??

 

[ILtemprd]

Where do you guys learn all this??

im one of those geeks with a degree in this junk..:hmmmm2: :banghead: :smokin:

 

[Kevan]

Where do you guys learn all this??

By doing.

I hate to sound like Vanilla Ice, but: If there's a problem, I'll solve it.
....check out the hook while my DJ revolves it....

Sorry. Regressed there a little.

When you're trying to do custom stuff, usually you run into problems like this. You want something that no one else has or has done, and thus....you need to find your own way to do it or make it.
In the process, you make TONS of mistakes. If you don't make mistakes, you're doing something wrong. The important part is to LEARN from those mistakes.

Now I sound like my dad.... LOL

After some hunting this afternoon (including a trip to the HARDCORE electronics store) and looking at a pantload of websites, I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to have to re-build one of the switches I have here. It's cheaper and probably quicker than ordering in something custom made from China.

Anyone want a DIY article on rebuilding SPST LED-tipped switches?
:thefinger:

 

[ILtemprd]

By doing.

I hate to sound like Vanilla Ice, but: If there's a problem, I'll solve it.
....check out the hook while my DJ revolves it....

LOL!!..:rock:

 

[Wifey]

When Mr, Edison was attempting to make a working lightbulb he was told he had Failed a few hundred times............................His Reply was always:

: I have Not Failed, I Just Found Another Way It Will Not Work"

 

[Rick_R]

Dude,
Grab a broken PS2 and get the reset from the front, it "changes colors" depending upon state.

Heh

 

[Stingray]

I'm fairly sure thats the problem Kev. If a indicator is important to you, you can use a 3 position "center off" momentary toggle switch that will latch in a small relay that would illuminate a LED on the momentary "on" position, and de-energize the relay in the momentary "off" position. If the remote membrane switch is turned on and off by a press of the same button, you will need this style switch anyway. Just purchase a dual pole instead of a single pole to operate your relay.

Couple stupid questions - is the relay used only to turn on/off the led? And how is the 3 position "center off" any different then the momentary "off" part of the same switch? Isn't that just 2 different open circuits?

 

[ILtemprd]

Couple stupid questions - is the relay used only to turn on/off the led? And how is the 3 position "center off" any different then the momentary "off" part of the same switch? Isn't that just 2 different open circuits?

not stupid at all bud...both actually, if you follow the solder trails on the printed circuit board with the remote wire coming in, I think you can see what i'm driving at. The center off is a an "off" state as you said but used more as a nuetral position than anything in this application. The way it appears to be wired, its a one shot on and off..wiring it remotely with this switch allows you split the on/off state, give you actual on /off direction control and allow other taps on the switch for other control, such as a latching relay for indication if needed..

 

[Prof]

OK this thread has left me way out of the communication flow...Kevin...let me know when you are finished...I feel really stupid reading words that make no sense to me...

Roy out!

 

[Stingray]

not stupid at all bud...both actually, if you follow the solder trails on the printed circuit board with the remote wire coming in, I think you can see what i'm driving at. The center off is a an "off" state as you said but used more as a nuetral position than anything in this application. The way it appears to be wired, its a one shot on and off..wiring it remotely with this switch allows you split the on/off state, give you actual on /off direction control and allow other taps on the switch for other control, such as a latching relay for indication if needed..

I think I understand that a little better. BTW, I looked up latching relays on Google, I'm surprised those aren't used in automotive aplications.

Anyway, this might be a messy install but couldn't Kevan just solder right to the original remote board and hide it. I'm assuming the ribbon cable goes to the switch, just unsolder that and attach 2 wires for the new remote momentary switch. And unsolder the green LED and attach 2 more wires there to run to a remote LED. It's just a thought

 

[ILtemprd]

I think I understand that a little better. BTW, I looked up latching relays on Google, I'm surprised those aren't used in automotive aplications.

Anyway, this might be a messy install but couldn't Kevan just solder right to the original remote board and hide it. I'm assuming the ribbon cable goes to the switch, just unsolder that and attach 2 wires for the new remote momentary switch. And unsolder the green LED and attach 2 more wires there to run to a remote LED. It's just a thought

sure they do, just not widly known..heres a link, use their stuff all the time..magnetic latching are real popular in newer automotive applications.........

http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/auto.asp

as far as extending the remote switch...absolutley.. I was just going off of what Kev had in mind.

 

[Kevan]

Prof- what I'm/we're trying to do is remove the original PCB board (the green plate) with their LED's and resistors, and use my own switch that has an LED indicator already built into it. We're changing one switch for a different switch.

Stingray- I did consider the 'just attach your switch to their board' method. I was hoping for a cleaner install (I don't like 'stashing' stuff).

The switch I'm going to re-build will need a spring and a center detent.
BIG party in my shop tonight.

 

[Wifey]

The switch I'm going to re-build will need a spring and a center detent.
BIG party in my shop tonight.

With pics I hope

 

[Prof]

This may be a long night!

 

[Kevan]

Just for Wifey:

I'm thinking about adding 2 springs- one to each contact, but on opposite sides of their respective contacts.
That should make it momentary.

Pros are welcome to chime in.