Tranny getting rebuilt again for the 4th time...

jrgnd

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Well, after having the truck parked for over a year, I decided to rebuild the transmission. I am going with a local guy, Tim Barber from TRE Diesel Performance.

I am quite literally sick and tired of spending money on this truck, so I researched Tim's reputation pretty well and haven't seen anything bad about him on the net.

I will keep you all informed....
 
Thanks...I will look into it...
 
mine was replaced once under warranty & rebuilt once under warranty the next time i'll do it myself i've got a few th400 & th350's under my belt but hopefully it will be a while
 
Keep me informed on how this turns out. When I get back a new tranny will be on the list of items needed.
 
FlyingLow said:
Keep me informed on how this turns out. When I get back a new tranny will be on the list of items needed.

Will do...
 
pissant#420 said:
mine was replaced once under warranty & rebuilt once under warranty the next time i'll do it myself i've got a few th400 & th350's under my belt but hopefully it will be a while


How many miles? Is your only mod a K&N?
 
Waiting on mine to get back this week too, got a 3000 stall Billet Torque Converter too, the guys upgrades for the Billet input shaft and Triple Disc TC were very inexpensive, we will see how well he can build a tranny, cuz Im going to be doing some drag racing.
 
05QCSRT10 said:
How many miles? Is your only mod a K&N?
new trans at 3700 miles rebuilt at 13500 only mod is the K&N drop-in I now have 23000 miles I tow a 1970 chevelle drag car and occasionally use the truck as a form of stress relief
 
pissant#420 said:
new trans at 3700 miles rebuilt at 13500 only mod is the K&N drop-in I now have 23000 miles I tow a 1970 chevelle drag car and occasionally use the truck as a form of stress relief


That's probably whats killing it, have you always towed with it?
 
whats the towinf limit on these trucks? I plan on towing a 8x15 trailer with about 2 bikes, tools and gear....
 
05_ram_1500 said:
whats the towinf limit on these trucks? I plan on towing a 8x15 trailer with about 2 bikes, tools and gear....


7500lbs......But I wouldn't tow that much, these trucks weren't designed for towing. It seems like alot of people that tow with the autos have trans problems. That's why I don't tow with it.
 
Fahrenheit said:
Waiting on mine to get back this week too, got a 3000 stall Billet Torque Converter too, the guys upgrades for the Billet input shaft and Triple Disc TC were very inexpensive, we will see how well he can build a tranny, cuz Im going to be doing some drag racing.

They didn't talk you into a billet input did they?!?!
 
Iv'e been reading through the performance section threads for the past few years and i rarely hear about people swaping out TC's......are they worth it and what size stall is recommended?


And JRGND why are you going through so many trannies besides the obvious paxton kit!? it seems like everyone with a QC and mods ends up with tranny issues besides the soft shifts caused by the shitty mopar valvbodies....What are yall doing about this? Whats failng in these trannies? Is it mechanical or something dealing with the TCM...WIth the rams beefed up trannies still crap...their issues lie in the tcm....So what im asking is if you fork out X amount for a built tranny....will you be good to go up until X amoutn of hp is reached and are you able to drive how you want and beat the piss out of a built srt tranny? Weak TCm controled trannies is the main problem holding the hemi's back.....
 
05_ram_1500 said:
I've been reading through the performance section threads for the past few years and i rarely hear about people swaping out TC's......are they worth it and what size stall is recommended?


And JRGND why are you going through so many trannies besides the obvious paxton kit!? it seems like everyone with a QC and mods ends up with tranny issues besides the soft shifts caused by the shitty mopar valvbodies....What are yall doing about this? Whats failng in these trannies? Is it mechanical or something dealing with the TCM...WIth the rams beefed up trannies still crap...their issues lie in the tcm....So what im asking is if you fork out X amount for a built tranny....will you be good to go up until X amoutn of hp is reached and are you able to drive how you want and beat the piss out of a built srt tranny? Weak TCm controled trannies is the main problem holding the hemi's back.....

The Hemi's have a different tranny. Ours are very slightly modified diesel trannys. They are almost purely mechanical. The computer can modify governor pressure which can make it shift. The computer can engage and disengage overdrive (4th gear), and the computer can lock/unlock the TC. That's it. The computer cannot control line pressure or anything else. It cannot control shift firmness. It only controls shift timing by tricking the valve body. It does this by holding the governor pressure low until it (the computer) wants the tranny to shift. It then raises the governor pressure and the valve body shifts the tranny. The computer watches for the sudden rpm change to know the the tranny shifted. It also compares the input speed to the output speed (engine rpm vs. output shaft speed) to estimate what gear it thinks the tranny is in. It then adjusts the governor pressure to where it thinks it should be, based on the speed you are going, so that the tranny stays in the proper gear. There are no sensors or anything in the tranny to tell the computer what gear the tranny is in; the computer must make an assumption. On the diesel trannys, the computer can pull or relax the throttle valve (TV) to change the shift behavior depending on whether the turbo has spooled up or not for a given throttle depression. Ours are a mechanical cable connected to the throttle body.

It is really an overly elaborate way of wrapping a control system around a purely mechanical transmission and getting it to behave like an electronically controlled tranny. It works fine as long as the tranny has no problems and is operating within known parameters. Incidentally, that is why you have to keep everything adjusted just right (2nd gear band, TV cable, fluid level, etc) or the tranny will shift funny. Once it gets out of whack, the computer wrongly assumes which gear the tranny is in and doesn't command the proper governor pressure, and it starts that 1-2, 1-2, 1-2 crap or it does not raise the governor pressure high enough and you hit the rev limiter before it shifts, etc.

Sometimes our transmissions shift too soft, and other times they shift too hard. Since the computer cannot control the shift quality or firmness, the mechanical valve body is just reacting based on its internal spring pressures vs the myriad of fluid pressures against various shift control valves, accumulators, and shuttle valves. All of this will will fluctuate with fluid temperature and the amount of moisture dissolved in the tranny fluid (which can affect how grippy the fluid is at the moment) and the condition of the clutch packs and bands.

Our trannys can be made very strong and durable and can shift hard enough to break the drive shaft, but it's difficult make them shift hard when they should and shift soft when just tooling around town, without adding a bunch more electronics -- which our trannys do not have. So, you either have a weak tranny, or an axle snapper. That's why everybody hates these trannys.

Mine is leaning toward the axle snapping side. It is entertaining, but a little obnoxious.
 
Last edited:
WOT said:
The Hemi's have a different tranny. Ours are very slightly modified diesel trannys. They are almost purely mechanical. The computer can modify governor pressure which can make it shift. The computer can engage and disengage overdrive (4th gear), and the computer can lock/unlock the TC. That's it. The computer cannot control line pressure or anything else. It cannot control shift firmness. It only controls shift timing by tricking the valve body. It does this by holding the governor pressure low until it (the computer) wants the tranny to shift. It then raises the governor pressure and the valve body shifts the tranny. The computer watches for the sudden rpm change to know the the tranny shifted. It also compares the input speed to the output speed (engine rpm vs. output shaft speed) to estimate what gear it thinks the tranny is in. It then adjusts the governor pressure to where it thinks it should be, based on the speed you are going, so that the tranny stays in the proper gear. There are no sensors or anything in the tranny to tell the computer what gear the tranny is in; the computer must make an assumption. On the diesel trannys, the computer can pull or relax the throttle valve (TV) to change the shift behavior depending on whether the turbo has spooled up or not for a given throttle depression. Ours are a mechanical cable connected to the throttle body.

It is really an overly elaborate way of wrapping a control system around a purely mechanical transmission and getting it to behave like an electronically controlled tranny. It works fine as long as the tranny has no problems and is operating within known parameters. Incidentally, that is why you have to keep everything adjusted just right (2nd gear band, TV cable, fluid level, etc) or the tranny will shift funny. Once it gets out of whack, the computer wrongly assumes which gear the tranny is in and doesn't command the proper governor pressure, and it starts that 1-2, 1-2, 1-2 crap or it does not raise the governor pressure high enough and you hit the rev limiter before it shifts, etc.

Sometimes our transmissions shift too soft, and other times they shift too hard. Since the computer cannot control the shift quality or firmness, the mechanical valve body is just reacting based on its internal spring pressures vs the myriad of fluid pressures against various shift control valves, accumulators, and shuttle valves. All of this will will fluctuate with fluid temperature and the amount of moisture dissolved in the tranny fluid (which can affect how grippy the fluid is at the moment) and the condition of the clutch packs and bands.

Our trannys can be made very strong and durable and can shift hard enough to break the drive shaft, but it's difficult make them shift hard when they should and shift soft when just tooling around town, without adding a bunch more electronics -- which our trannys do not have. So, you either have a weak tranny, or an axle snapper. That's why everybody hates these trannys.

Mine is leaning toward the axle snapping side. It is entertaining, but a little obnoxious.



Thats exactly what i wanted to know and explains everthing in detail...So how and what are people doing to the trannies to call them "built trannies" exactly?.....sounds like the 10's should get a driveshaft loop, bigger tranny cooler and a modified valvebody and they should be good to go then right? I just want to know what i need to do with the tranny since i would prefer to upgrade that before i have issues with it! Whats up with this gm soleniod? Is that a no shit mod that really helps with the 1-2 shift problem that you speak off? Just trying to see what type of things i want to do off rip once i get my srt-10 here shortly!
 
05_ram_1500 said:
Thats exactly what i wanted to know and explains everthing in detail...So how and what are people doing to the trannies to call them "built trannies" exactly?.....sounds like the 10's should get a driveshaft loop, bigger tranny cooler and a modified valvebody and they should be good to go then right? I just want to know what i need to do with the tranny since i would prefer to upgrade that before i have issues with it! Whats up with this gm soleniod? Is that a no shit mod that really helps with the 1-2 shift problem that you speak off? Just trying to see what type of things i want to do off rip once i get my srt-10 here shortly!

OK, so there are a couple of things that need to be addressed in the trannys:

1. The timing of the 2 to 3 shift from the factory is such that the 3rd gear clutch tries to engage before the 2nd gear band has completly let go. Depending on how sloppy the tranny is built, the stacked tolerances, and how your particular valve body behaves, you could have one that has very little shift overlap and will go over a 100K miles, or one that has a bunch of overlap and will burn up the front clutch in the first 15K miles or so. If you have one that is somewhere in between, it will slowly cook the front clutch while distributing little clutch particles all throughout the tranny. These particles will clog the governor control valve solenoid and the govenor pressure transducer. This will cause the 1-2, 1-2, 1-2 shift problem. Replacing the solenoid and transducer will fix the erratic shift problem untill more clutch pack crap gets in there and clogs it up again. The problem is the 2-3 over lap timing and until that is fixed, replacing the solenoid and transducer over and over is just a band aid. There is a kit from PATC to replace the governor solendoid with a GM style solenoid that doesn't get clogged up. However, you still need to fix the 2-3 overlap if you want the tranny to live.

2. The factory valve body may be warped and many of the castings can be fairly pourous and will cross-leak and cause shifting problems. There are guys out there that build valve bodies that help the 2-3 overlap and make the tranny shift faster and harder. Dusty Hawk is one of those guys.

3. The second gear engagement lever (5:1 ratio lever) can bind up and cause the 2nd gear band to drag. The fix is to install the 4.2:1 lever which has a much stronger pin boss.

4. The factory 2nd gear accumlator is made out of plastic. You can replace it with a billet aluminum piece that won't distort.

5. A stronger spring can be put into the 2nd gear band engagment servo so that it releases faster when shifting into 3rd.

6. There are some oiling improvements that can be made on the output shaft to help the bearings.

7. For high HP applications, a hardened input shaft can be obtained, and a billet, reinforced TC can be used as well.

I am by no means an expert in these trannies, I have just been working out the bugs in my own. Hope this helps
 
Last edited:
WOT said:
OK, so there are a couple of things that need to be addressed in the trannys:

1. The timing of the 2 to 3 shift from the factory is such that the 3rd gear clutch tries to engage before the 2nd gear band has completly let go. Depending on how sloppy the tranny is built, the stacked tolerances, and how your particular valve body behaves, you could have one that has very little shift overlap and will go over a 100K miles, or one that has a bunch of overlap and will burn up the front clutch in the first 15K miles or so. If you have one that is somewhere in between, it will slowly cook the front clutch while distributing little clutch particles all throughout the tranny. These particles will clog the governor control valve solenoid and the govenor pressure transducer. This will cause the 1-2, 1-2, 1-2 shift problem. Replacing the solenoid and transducer will fix the erratic shift problem untill more clutch pack crap gets in there and clogs it up again. The problem is the 2-3 over lap timing and until that is fixed, replacing the solenoid and transducer over and over is just a band aid. There is a kit from PATC to replace the governor solendoid with a GM style solenoid that doesn't get clogged up. However, you still need to fix the 2-3 overlap if you want the tranny to live.

2. The factory valve body may be warped and many of the castings can be fairly pourous and will cross-leak and cause shifting problems. There are guys out there that build valve bodies that help the 2-3 overlap and make the tranny shift faster and harder. Dusty Hawk is one of those guys.

3. The second gear engagement lever (5:1 ratio lever) can bind up and cause the 2nd gear band to drag. The fix is to install the 4.3:1 lever which has a much stronger pin boss.

4. The factory 2nd gear accumlator is made out of plastic. You can replace it with a billet aluminum piece that won't distort.

5. A stronger spring can be put into the 2nd gear band engagment servo so that it releases faster when shifting into 3rd.

6. There are some oiling improvements that can be made on the output shaft to help the bearings.

7. For high HP applications, a hardened input shaft can be obtained, and a billet, reinforced TC can be used as well.

I am by no means an expert in these trannies, I have just been working out the bugs in my own. Hope this helps


This helps out alot, but i have one more question about these sugestions:D

How hard are the mods that you speak of to do? Do i have to pull my tranny and take it apart to do them? Where can i get the upgraded replacement parts needed? Is there a vendor here or someone close to Savannah that is recommended to rebuild SRT's trannies and will do all of the above plus some?

I really would prefer to take care of the tranny issue before i put money into full exahust, CAI, and sct which i think will be my first actual mods!
 
05_ram_1500 said:
This helps out alot, but i have one more question about these sugestions:D

How hard are the mods that you speak of to do? Do i have to pull my tranny and take it apart to do them? Where can i get the upgraded replacement parts needed? Is there a vendor here or someone close to Savannah that is recommended to rebuild SRT's trannies and will do all of the above plus some?

I really would prefer to take care of the tranny issue before i put money into full exahust, CAI, and sct which i think will be my first actual mods!

You can replace the valve body, 2nd gear accumulator, 2nd gear servo return spring, and do the GM solenoid valve conversion without removing the tranny.

Changing the 5:1 lever to the 4.2:1 lever will require tranny disassembly. And if you go that route, have them upgrade the direct clutch with better parts. You won't need to go to billet input shafts and all that unless you are going with forced induction or a big shot of nitrous.

If you are going to remove the tranny, just send it off to one of the builders.

Dusty Hawk at HTS builds a good tranny http://www.htstransmissions.com/Services.html but it is going to shift firm all the time. You might give him a call and see what he has to say. He is a really nice guy.

I've heard good things about Goerend Bros, DTT, NADP, ATS, and Suncoast but have no personal experience with any of them exept HTS. I think HTS is probably one of the better ones out there.
 

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