US Made

[FastRam]

I read through the thread concerning the discussions of the 504HP Tundra PU and noticed several interesting comments about US prodcued vice foreign prodcued vehicles. The purpose of this thread is to share several differing thoughts on that subject and to hear what other members thoughts are. I do request that any comments concerning racism or those meant to bash or belittle others not be Posted.

Attached are several links, UAW endorsed consumer buying guide, a New York Times article (albeit from 09/2007) concerning the increase in imported (foreign) vehicle sales, not produced in the US and an article from MSN that contains several interesting view points on how Toyota became engrained in American culture and society. IMO, each of these articles presents differing view points on the subject of US made vice foreign made. The cultural significance and economics of this issue are very complex and are not relegated or constrained to one market place, e.g. cars and trucks.

http://www.uaw.org/uawmade/auto/2007/index.cfm

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/30/w...39e48fae561da6&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/TheUnitedStatesOfToyota.aspx?page=1

Why did I buy Dodge? Simply put, it met my needs as a consumer and it is what I wanted. Any other thoughts out there?

 

[BigRed460]

I think the misconception with foreign produced vs domestic produced it's that all of it has very little affect on an economy that runs on consumer spending. If the big three were doing there job they wouldn't have anything to worry about, but besides that the question is were is the money going? Basically that breaks down into three parts of the cost of production; parts, capital, and labor. The money I spend on a car is put back into the economy through one of those ways. When you look at it that way most car company's can only claim one of those as how there putting money back into America's economy. Toyota has invested alot of capital into the US (Texas got a large chunk of that with their truck plant here). Second the labor force employed at those factories spends there money in the US, parts are still made else where and most top Toyota executives live(and spend money) outside the us. Now look at the big three, most of the labor has been outsourced, no new capital in the us has been gained, and most have cut the us jobs that put money back into our economy.So who is really more American? Right now I am VERY sad to say I would feel I was supporting America more if I bought a Toyota.

That said congrats to them for coming that far, the us car market is no longer controlled by only US car makers. Competition can only lead to better for the consumer, the US makers have taken a hard hit, but they can pull back out of it.

....Just my thoughts

Thanks,
BigRed

 

[Silverback]

At the time our trucks were produced, the Chrysler Corporation was owned by Daimler, a German company. Now the joining of Chrysler and Daimler was sold as a merger. The only one's that were stupid enough to believe that were the Chrysler executives that bought into it. It was never a merger.

So our trucks were built in Mexico, buy a company that was owned by Germany. Those are facts.

The Tundra is built in America by a Japanese company. In all honesty it could be argued that the Tundra is more American than the Dodge SRT/10.

In today's global economy it's really hard to distinguish what is what anymore.

 

[94rt10ohio]

The Tundra is built in America by a Japanese company. In all honesty it could be argued that the Tundra is more American than the Dodge SRT/10.

That sounds familar and oh so true.

The ones who can not admidt to this makes us all look bad. Whether it is pride or just flat out now knowing. The Tundra people read it and have a very valid point by saying we do not know what we are talking about.

 

[94rt10ohio]

As a side note, my 05 Hemi window sticker it says that 73% of all comonents of this truck were from the US. On the 08, I think it dropped to the upper 60s. The standard Ram was and always have been assembled in the US though. Chrysler does assemble A LOT of cars in Canada however.

 

[axxel]

A lot of european carmakers are opening plants in de US.
Because the dollar is cheap for us compare to the euro.
Build the cars in the US and ship them to europe.

But that's why i get my cars from the US also.
First a 2004 ram 1500 hemi and now the 2005 ram srt-10
The pickup's you can buy overhere cost more and are very tiny compare to a Dodge.

Alex

 

[FastRam]

As a side note, my 05 Hemi window sticker it says that 73% of all comonents of this truck were from the US. On the 08, I think it dropped to the upper 60s. The standard Ram was and always have been assembled in the US though. Chrysler does assemble A LOT of cars in Canada however.

And Mexico too.

Attached are 2 more links. One is an article I found that ranks the top 10 selling vehicles that failed to meet our US Government's definition of "US Made". Several of these cars are Chrysler products. The second link is to the American Automobile Labeling Act, Title 49 CFR, part 583. I wonder why Canada is included in all the calculations?

http://www.autobytel.com/content/sh.../article_page_order_int/1/article_id_int/1965

http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_07/49cfr583_07.html

 

[Danko]

94, Many Rams are built in Mexico at the same plant our trucks were. Couple comments.... "domestic content" is misleading. Honda imported parts for the front half shafts from Japan, assembled them with two pins made in England and since they were "assembled" in Canada, they qualified as "domestic content". Many examples of this exist. I think knowing where the owners are and where profits end up is important. It is too easy to slam what was the Big 3 but I like to focus on the fact that our gov't protects Korea, Germany and Japan almost for free so their economies can afford to get healthcare and their car companies do not have to pay for it like Ford and GM do. Not fair at all. Our gov't is too concerned with other countries and not enough with us. Americans now like to justify buying unAmerican by saying it is all a global economy. That is actually not true because only we are stupid enough to continually (over $60 billion/month) send more money overseas than comes in to our country. That is why the dollar has plummeted and we see prices rising but it is really just the dollar dropping. How "global" is it when Koreans sell over 700,000 vehicles here per year and only buy 5,000 of ours? How global is it when Japan buys Japanese and not our stuff? Be American!!!! Protect the economic future of our children, please!

 

[TNVIPER]

I can remember when foreign cars were foriegn made and American were American made...people only drove a Japanese car because they couldnt afford an American car....not true anymore...and yes I agree with silverback that the Japanese cars are probably more American made than the American......but I will never, and I mean never, find myself waxing around letters that spell Toyota, Nissan and some others.....:thumpdown:

With that said I dont mean to offend anyone who owns these vehicles...they are well made and look great in most cases..just dont make like em....:sheep:


...that is all..:burnout:

 

[94rt10ohio]

I stand corrected, but my Hemi Ram was assembled in St. Louis

 

[Silverback]

I can remember when foreign cars were foriegn made and American were American made...people only drove a Japanese car because they couldnt afford an American car....not true anymore...and yes I agree with silverback that the Japanese cars are probably more American made than the American......but I will never, and I mean never, find myself waxing around letters that spell Toyota, Nissan and some others.....:thumpdown:

With that said I dont mean to offend anyone who owns these vehicles...they are well made and look great in most cases..just dont make like em....:sheep:


...that is all..:burnout:

That is why we all have the freedom to make choices.

And just so you know, at least in my opinion I did not see anything offensive in your post.

 

[bigike]

Danko - Well Said!

I also go back to what these companies have done for our past as Americans. And for that I will stand by them through thick and thin, good a bad until the end. I've said it thousands of times, these companies have won wars and built the economy that we love today. My CHOICE is to stand beside what stood beside us.

 

[MRXSRT]

Danko - Well Said!

I also go back to what these companies have done for our past as Americans. And for that I will stand by them through thick and thin, good a bad until the end. I've said it thousands of times, these companies have won wars and built the economy that we love today. My CHOICE is to stand beside what stood beside us.

bigike-

What a great perspective - thanks for sharing!

I have been proudly patriotic since I could walk but I never really thought of it in that way. Awesome post!

 

[BriteCrawler]

I stand corrected, but my Hemi Ram was assembled in St. Louis

Your VIN begins with a 1 ?

I thought MOST of the SRT-10 Trucks (...and I thought all the RC's) were 3's - for the Mexico plant.

 

[94rt10ohio]

How about this......


DETROIT -- Under an expanded product sharing alliance announced today, Chrysler LLC will become Nissan's pickup truck manufacturer, while Nissan will make subcompacts for Chrysler.
The agreement means Nissan will discontinue making its Titan pickup when Chrysler starts making Nissan-badged trucks in 2011.
In exchange, Chrysler will get a Nissan-based small car, built at Nissan's Oppama, Japan, factory to Chrysler's own design starting in 2010. The new car is destined for North America, Europe and other global markets.
The Nissan-based small car will be built on a new Nissan platform to an already-completed Chrysler design, according to Chrysler co-President Tom LaSorda. He declined to say whether the design would be based on the Dodge Hornet concept car.
LaSorda said the deal will have no impact on its ongoing venture with Chinese carmaker Chery Automobile Co. The two companies continue to work jointly on products for North America and other markets, he said.
"At some point we believe we need more than one small car," for North America, LaSorda said. "We would be counting on Chery to provide that."
The Nissan-based small car will be built on a new platform.
Chrysler will make the Nissan pickup for Nissan at its Saltillo, Mexico, factory. To make room for the Nissan product, Chrysler will shift Dodge Ram production to its St. Louis North and Warren, Mich., truck plants. LaSorda said heavy duty production would likely be shifted to St. Louis North, while light duty production could easily be shifted to Warren. The Chrysler-built Nissan pickup will go on sale in North America in 2011.
In January, the two companies announced Nissan would supply Chrysler with a Versa-based sedan for sale in South America starting next year.
"Forging the right tactical partnerships is critical to the long-term success of Chrysler," said LaSorda in a prepared statement.
The companies said they "have also agreed to maintain an open dialogue to explore further product-sharing opportunities," according to a Chrysler press release.
LaSorda declined to discuss financial details of the agreement except to say that Chrysler would pay Nissan for vehicles the latter builds and vice versa.

 

[94rt10ohio]

Your VIN begins with a 1 ?

I thought MOST of the SRT-10 Trucks (...and I thought all the RC's) were 3's - for the Mexico plant.

Not my SRT, my Hemi.

 

[Big Asp]

Here is partial list of makes that GM owns outright or holds significant amounts of stock and/or control: Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Daewoo (Korean), GMC, Holden (Australian), Opel (German), Pontiac, Saab (Sweden), Saturn, Subaru (Japan), Vauxhall (England).

Ford has been tied in with Mazda for years. Both are now partnering with Changan Automobile Co. From China. Our own beloved Mother Mopar is partnering with Chery Automobile Co. From China to import Chinese made Chyslers. The reality is that national lines between any car manufacturer are fuzzy at best - if they even exist at all.

When foreign companies gain control of American companies, they consciously maintain the “American Brandâ€￾ identity because of the “Buy Americanâ€￾ crowd who think they are being patriotic. The reality is that they are the same company that made tanks or airplanes in WWII - only in name. Many of these foreign companies bank on the fact that the ignorant masses will not know the difference. And, to a large extent, they are successful.

Also, I agree that the US needs to level the playing field as far as imports and exports are concerned. However, living in Seoul, South Korea, I can tell you that to compare the number of US cars purchased in Korea versus the number of Korean cars purchased in the US is very misleading. South Korea has 49 million people. The population centers are extremely high in density with narrow streets and no place to park a car. The percentage of the population who own a car as compared to the US is miniscule. How many people living in downtown New York City own a car? Still, there are a lot of 300Cs and PT Cruisers cruising around Seoul. Owning a US car is a status symbol.

I’m with my wise, hairy, primate friend from the Pacific Northwest on this one.

 

[Silverback]

Here is partial list of makes that GM owns outright or holds significant amounts of stock and/or control: Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Daewoo (Korean), GMC, Holden (Australian), Opel (German), Pontiac, Saab (Sweden), Saturn, Subaru (Japan), Vauxhall (England).

Ford has been tied in with Mazda for years. Both are now partnering with Changan Automobile Co. From China. Our own beloved Mother Mopar is partnering with Chery Automobile Co. From China to import Chinese made Chyslers. The reality is that national lines between any car manufacturer are fuzzy at best - if they even exist at all.

When foreign companies gain control of American companies, they consciously maintain the “American Brandâ€￾ identity because of the “Buy Americanâ€￾ crowd who think they are being patriotic. The reality is that they are the same company that made tanks or airplanes in WWII - only in name. Many of these foreign companies bank on the fact that the ignorant masses will not know the difference. And, to a large extent, they are successful.

Also, I agree that the US needs to level the playing field as far as imports and exports are concerned. However, living in Seoul, South Korea, I can tell you that to compare the number of US cars purchased in Korea versus the number of Korean cars purchased in the US is very misleading. South Korea has 49 million people. The population centers are extremely high in density with narrow streets and no place to park a car. The percentage of the population who own a car as compared to the US is miniscule. How many people living in downtown New York City own a car? Still, there are a lot of 300Cs and PT Cruisers cruising around Seoul. Owning a US car is a status symbol.

I’m with my wise, hairy, primate friend from the Pacific Northwest on this one.

Thanks for posting that Phil. I didn't want to upset BigIke anymore than I had already.

What Phil said is correct. Those "American" companies are only related in name to the companies that formed the great war machine of WWII.

Unfortunately with the influx of MBA college educated idiots (not all by the way) companies are only concerned with 2 things. Keeping their stock holders happy, and short term gains. It's those short term gains that keep the stock holder happy by the way, so it kind of feeds on itself.

As most of you have seen, the losers are the American workers as our jobs are offloaded to countries with cheaper labor rates. Of course the quality sucks, but what can we do, as all the companies are doing it.

I really wonder what they are thinking sometimes. If they continue to erode the wages of the American worker, who is going to buy their products? They cannot totally count on that 5% of the workers that make a 6 figure salary. It seems that they will not be satisfied until we become a 3rd world country.

Someone much smarted than I am will have to answer this question.

And to BigIke. I admire your patriotism. However do not let that blind you to what is happening around you. Now I'm not saying this is at the same level, but this is what Hitler did. Patriotic people blindly followed him. Only an educated and informed country can remain free.

Hope this hasn't offended you, as that was not my intent.

 

[pirateman]

what most people dont know is that the states that these foreign companies reside in give them free taxes for 15 to 25 years to draw them into their state. Just like bmw in greenville sc. As a small business owner i sure resent this. HELL, i FEEL LIKE I WORK FOR THE GOVERNMENT AS MUCH AS I PAY IN TAXES.

 

[Silverback]

what most people dont know is that the states that these foreign companies reside in give them free taxes for 15 to 25 years to draw them into their state. Just like bmw in greenville sc. As a small business owner i sure resent this. HELL, i FEEL LIKE I WORK FOR THE GOVERNMENT AS MUCH AS I PAY IN TAXES.

Just so you are aware, they do the same things for US companies.

Boeing shopped around the final assembly of the 787. If I remember right, they ended up with over $250 million in tax credits from the state of Washington.

And that is true of other US companies as well.