VEC programmers and water/meth

[Dave T(BADVENM)]

When I inquired with Roe about the VEC3 they suggested (as an add on sale of sorts I guess) I might also add their water/meth system to my truck. My first thoughts are that I wouldnt want it because of a few stories of it failing and destroying the engine.

After thinking about it some more I thought about using it only for drag racing (with one smart card) and not using it for road racing (another smart card that would prevent it from being used or activated).

My thinking is that during 20 minute sessions at high rpms I would use quite a bit of the water/meth and possibly forget to check it periodically. Also, I dont want to have to monitor whether its working or not when focusing on driving the truck around a track and in traffic. Hence, I would simply put in a card through the VEC that wouldnt activate the system.

For drag racing its not as a big deal since the run only takes several seconds to run and plenty of time in between to check. I'd also want the additional power and torque the water/meth would bring so I could insert a seperate smart card with the dyno tune and water/meth activated.

Sound reasonable? Any stories from those who have it and road/drag race? When does your system activate (rpm's)?

Figure if I'm gonna get the truck done in April might as well get everything done I may want so I dont have to drive another 10+ hours each way to Saint Louis to get it done in the future.

 

[Bone]

You only refill it once every few gas fillups. Even running the truck hard, maybe once every two trips to the gas station.

Yeap, the magic of the VEC, can change out programs when you want.

You can activate it whenever you want (RPM wise) and how much you want to inject. I also add about 3 degrees of timing when injecting meth/water.

 

[E-BENZ]

If you use the wiper fluid res you will get a light when it is low. Work for me!!

 

[NBT]

When does your system activate (rpm's)?

Figure if I'm gonna get the truck done in April might as well get everything done I may want so I dont have to drive another 10+ hours each way to Saint Louis to get it done in the future.

Mine hit's at 3K... been running it for 2 years with no issues.

 

[Prof]

I agree with both of the comments above.

My setup has the reader in the dash, so does 1Fast400 (his install is super kewl! mine is a little more rough)

Mine:

My meth comes on at about 3200 rpm...in hard driving on the street, I use a gallon every two or three tanks.

On the strip, I run all day (five or six runs) without fear of running out of meth just using the windshield wiper fluid container.

If you have concerns about your road racing jaunts, I would run a few hard test laps to see what the usage factor is per lap. Your idea of a card in the VEC to turn the meth on and off is exactly what I have. No meth with a setting for regular fuel (for use in an emergency when I cannot get 93 octane). A 93 octane card without meth, and a 93 octane setting with meth (the hotrod card).

I also have a "Valet" card which sets the rev limiter to 2500. And the real deal card that is "No Start". The engine will turn over but never start...the thief will just have to push it, tow it or just kill the battery!)

I think your plan is good, but get the no start card too!

You will have two idiot lights. The one that comes with your truck for the windshield washer low indicator, and a green light (in my windshield pillar) to indicate when the meth is being injected.

Hope this helps.

Roy

 

[Dave T(BADVENM)]

Did any of you dyno before and after the water/meth? I'm espicially curious to know from those with the Paxtons and the Roe superchargers (since I have the Paxton) as to the further improvements above the superchargers.

I do like your guys setups!! Wonder if the activation lights could be mounted on the 3 gauge a-pillar I have...somewhat eye level and easier to notice.

 

[Prof]

I was told by Sean Roe that there is not any real measurable hp difference with the water meth...but it is like driving on a cool day versus a hot day...the cooling affect (effect?) has great advantage. In a boosted environment, the significantly lower intake air temps due to the meth has very beneficial impact.

And since those of us that are using the Roe Top Mount do not have intercoolers, the water/meth takes its place...remember one of the characteristics of the twin screw is that the boost only really comes on under heavy throttle, and that is when the meth is activated.

 

[mmmmtorque]

I ran my meth for the second half of the summer last year. It does help on those hot days and on the dyno (94 degrees/DA 2700) showed that I only lost 5rwhp from peak vs 30rwhp.

You should be able to run it on the road course with no problems...Just dont advance the timing more than you would have it running 93.

Take extra meth/water mis with you to the track ....you will get the low washer fluid light on if you are running low. Although you wont run out on a 30 min session, should last at least 2-3 sessions my guess.

 

[ViperTruck2933]

Dave,

I would discuss it with Joe, especially if he's going to be doing your tune. He is BY FAR the most knowledgeable Viper dude I have ever spoken with and I am sure he wouldn't steer you wrong.
:burnout:

 

[Bone]

Did any of you dyno before and after the water/meth? I'm espicially curious to know from those with the Paxtons and the Roe superchargers (since I have the Paxton) as to the further improvements above the superchargers.

I do like your guys setups!! Wonder if the activation lights could be mounted on the 3 gauge a-pillar I have...somewhat eye level and easier to notice.

On a cool day, should be about the same. Not much of a noticable difference. Hot day, yes, you will regain horsepower lost. Meth doesn't necessarily add HP, but to keep the horsepower you have on a cold day. (colder air - more oxygen) AND of course, reduce the possibility of detonation with forced induction.

I have a scanguage on my inlet temp....As an example, a half second burst of water/meth reduced reduced my IAT from 140 to 87 F last summer.

posted somewhere on the forum about this.

 

[JR_PRO]

I looked on Roes website and was not 100% sure but in order for the Meth injection to work you must have the VECIII correct? The meth injection can not be used as a stand alone mod from what it looks like. My truck is not SC but with 100 degree days in Texas I was just curious...

Thanks!

 

[Dave T(BADVENM)]

You can use the water/meth with either the VEC2 or VEC3...you dont need forced induction. So yes, you can use it as a stand alone mod from what I understand.

 

[Prof]

I looked on Roes website and was not 100% sure but in order for the Meth injection to work you must have the VECIII correct? The meth injection can not be used as a stand alone mod from what it looks like. My truck is not SC but with 100 degree days in Texas I was just curious...

Thanks!

Absolutely! I had my VEC III and water/meth for several months prior to the install of the supercharger and it was amazing to see the temperatures drop when the meth was injected...this may sound strange but if you put my truck in 5th or 6th gear at a low speed and pushed the engine past 3000 rpm (you could actually see the temperature gage drop! Understand that the VEC allows you to set the point at which the meth is injected.

 

[NBT]

I looked on Roes website and was not 100% sure but in order for the Meth injection to work you must have the VECIII correct? The meth injection can not be used as a stand alone mod from what it looks like. My truck is not SC but with 100 degree days in Texas I was just curious...

Thanks!

Night and day difference with the Meth on in the summer...vs the Meth off....:burnout:
Again... no HP/TQ increase with the system.... but minimal loss when it's hot/humid out, or your heat soaked.:rock:

 

[FlyingLow]

It can't be used as a stand alone. You have to have something to trigger the meth, so you have to have a VEC2/3. There are other kits out here that are stand alone. I think Snow makes one.

 

[JR_PRO]

Absolutely! I had my VEC III and water/meth for several months prior to the install of the supercharger and it was amazing to see the temperatures drop when the meth was injected...this may sound strange but if you put my truck in 5th or 6th gear at a low speed and pushed the engine past 3000 rpm (you could actually see the temperature gage drop! Understand that the VEC allows you to set the point at which the meth is injected.

I got it...I was thinking you could run meth injection with no VECIII. I thought maybe the meth could operate stand alone meaning it had its own built in controller. But since I do not have the VECIII I would have to buy and install a VECIII for the meth to function at all correct?

 

[FlyingLow]

But since I do not have the VECIII I would have to buy and install a VECIII for the meth to function at all correct?

Correct. But in the long run you can tune with VEC and use it for pretty much any future mod.

 

[Bone]

I got it...I was thinking you could run meth injection with no VECIII. I thought maybe the meth could operate stand alone meaning it had its own built in controller. But since I do not have the VECIII I would have to buy and install a VECIII for the meth to function at all correct?

Snow performance has methanol injection kits. You don't have to go with the VEC for methanol injection.

 

[JR_PRO]

I just checked out Snow's website regarding there Meth kits and it looks interesting. Everyone I have talked to about these V-10 engines all say they don't like heat. I believe even Boomer stated that after the engine temp goes over 195 degrees the PCM automatically reduces timing about 20 degrees (I think it was 20 degrees but maybe off here) which I am sure you can feel in the pants dyno.

What I am wondering is if let's say it is 98 degrees outside and the engine is at 205 degrees on the temp gauge then based on what I have heard the timing at that point is reduced 20 degrees. So if you add Meth injection to a non FI engine it will lower intake air temp which will help but is it going to reduce engine temps below 195 degrees quick enough to get the timing back?

 

[Bone]

I don't know about the timing, I haven't heard that before, definitely not doubting Boomer. However, it doesn't reduce the engine temp a great deal if any, only IAT like you said.