Well....... here we go.

Venom Power said:
:eek:Oh dang you're right..





I don't believe John intended to offend anyone or sounded like a racist. And I don't believe he feels all Afro Americans are the same. I agree with his view on ignorance, which is the real key term I think he was addressing. Skin pigmentation is not at all a factor. Many of you know I'm a straight up minority of many world cultures and I sure can pass for a brutha if I wanted. But I'm a red-blooded American, period.. Born on Manhattan Island not far from GROUND ZERO. But like John I am also just fed up with how some people tear up their own communities to display their apparent anger. Many don't have anger at all. They just exploit a situation like a riot for a "get out of jail free" card to simply do what they wanted.. gain stuff for free.

I am all for a change from the old normal crap and policies our country has been subjected to. But I tell you all now if Obama takes his oath as United States president a whole new can of worms will be opened on society that I won't bother mentioning here as my endeavor to maintain respect for everyone and not offend anyone. All we can do is wait and watch and when what I feel will happen does, I'll just be interested to know what everyone thinks then. For a presidential candidate to differentiate between America and "Black America," I am not sure if that's the sort of attitude I am looking forward to running this ONE great nation.




Thank you so much for understanding my viewpoint.:congrats: :marchmellow:

I was completely dumbfounded as to how anyone could misinterpret

my post to such a degree.:confused:

(Unless they are news reporters!):D
 
bigike said:
How do you add someone to your ignore list? It's alittle off subject but what the hell.

I'm Kind of glad that Mr. Obama won, he is the easier of the two to beat. However, comma, here lately I've actually thought about not voting. See I believe that Obama and McCain are almost one in the same on alot of issues. Except one, and I care to much about the freedom of the Iraqi people and the Hope for Change in that part of the world to hand it over to someone who does not.

So I will hold my nose and vote McCain.

O and congrats on the whole first black candidate, although that never has been a issue for me. Heck If Obama was a conservative that held the values that I feel for this country, I'd vote for him as many times as the system would allow......................... but he is neigh.








Here,Here!,

What I do not undertand is if Obama has all these great ideas, why hasn't

he introduced them instead of just voting present most of the time while in

the senate. Obama then runs for president and spouts CHANGE! CHANGE!

CHANGE!, but when asked about what changes he is talking about answers

with the most proficient political double speak as to make Clinton look like

an amateur. The only confirmed fact about this man is that he is the most

left wing liberal elitist in the senate.

In closing I wish people would just stop talking about race,gender, the first

black this, first woman that, first midget eskimo this etc; because if you really

give it some thought, by making an issue of the person being the first

whatever, it is suggesting that they are inferior. Think about it.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
 
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One of my problems with Obama is that he is far more hung up on race than anyone here. If you want to end racism, why single out "black america?" Maybe it's just his ploy to get the african american vote, I hope that's all it is but that is pretty shameless and doesn't speak highly of his character.

Heck I don't think he has any character to speak of, if someone had ties to him and damaged his campaign he just threw them under the bus. I'm interested to see what he does when this video of his wife showing her true colors comes out. Is he going to dump her as well?

Like others have said, I have no idea what "change" is. Do you? He has never stood for anything in Congress, hell he almost never expressed an opinion while in office. The only things I know that he stands for... the liberal party line, I don't like.

IMO he is a racist, he's shamelessly pandering to the black community to try to get elected, some of his quotes from his book scare me, his statment that he would stand with the muslims scares me, and he is better at spin than the man who invented it... Clinton.

Joe
 
I don't know if Obama is a racists or not...I do know that lots of people have referred to themselves as Irish Americans, Italian Americans, German Americans and they were accepted for that...heck I am a Korean American, my kids are Korean-English Americans...

The titles are just that titles and everyone is entitled to retain their cultural background if they so desire. (Hell Stinker claims to be a Hillbilly American!) These are words, depending on your personal views may offend you. Heck rich American, poor American, Southern American, left coast American...they are just words...not necessarily philosophies.

I think many are making way too much of this issue...

I am worried about the amount of seasoning that Obama seems to have, or not have. He is very liberal...but that seems to be what the democrats want to have as our leader. (Last time I checked having a two party system is as American as the right to own a gun.)

A huge amount will depend on the staff the new President selects. If he were to have a Rove, Wolfowitz, Cheney advisor group, he would become very hawkish over night. The President has to rely on their advisers because of the magnitude of the position...hell, anyone in that job has to have huge amounts of help. So the cabinet and his personal staff will be incredibly important...and maybe that will be something that we see in the distant future...who are the policy makers that will be next to the President...they are the ones that truly make the policy.

I feel that McCain will have the best staff because of his contacts, his years of experience and the huge financial resources of the Republican National Committee. But we will have to wait and see.
 
if you go to his website and click on people, you will see he talks to every race except for the Anglo American
 
Prof said:
I don't know if Obama is a racists or not...I do know that lots of people have referred to themselves as Irish Americans, Italian Americans, German Americans and they were accepted for that...heck I am a Korean American, my kids are Korean-English Americans...

The titles are just that titles and everyone is entitled to retain their cultural background if they so desire. (Hell Stinker claims to be a Hillbilly American!) These are words, depending on your personal views may offend you. Heck rich American, poor American, Southern American, left coast American...they are just words...not necessarily philosophies.

I think many are making way too much of this issue...



A huge amount will depend on the staff the new President selects. If he were to have a Rove, Wolfowitz, Cheney advisor group, he would become very hawkish over night. The President has to rely on their advisers because of the magnitude of the position...hell, anyone in that job has to have huge amounts of help. So the cabinet and his personal staff will be incredibly important...and maybe that will be something that we see in the distant future...who are the policy makers that will be next to the President...they are the ones that truly make the policy.

I feel that McCain will have the best staff because of his contacts, his years of experience and the huge financial resources of the Republican National Committee. But we will have to wait and see.



You beat me to the key board.

But you are 100% correct about advisors to the president.

Under the best of circumstances it isn't much better than a crap shoot

picking people that are hopefully at least competent for these positions.

On the news last night that very subject arose and I was shocked at

the people Obama has been closest to, none of which I don't think could

survive the background, polygraph, drug, etc;tests here to be a dog catcher. (No offence to any Animal Control Officers)

It seems the more info that comes to light on this man the more I wonder

how he got as far as he has. What is even more bizarre is the large number

of people showing apparent liming like blind devotion to him. Scary!:dontknow:
 
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Prof said:
I don't know if Obama is a racists or not...I do know that lots of people have referred to themselves as Irish Americans, Italian Americans, German Americans and they were accepted for that...heck I am a Korean American, my kids are Korean-English Americans...

The titles are just that titles and everyone is entitled to retain their cultural background if they so desire. (Hell Stinker claims to be a Hillbilly American!) These are words, depending on your personal views may offend you. Heck rich American, poor American, Southern American, left coast American...they are just words...not necessarily philosophies.

I think many are making way too much of this issue...

This is so true Prof but unfortunately (and sadly) people still get offended if they are not addressed as such depending on the cultural title. (this is going to turn into a ranting post) I hate to speak on the subject because what I will say may offend and seem as if I am singling out a certain race of people. But it's the hardcore truth. It's not that I don't like any one race, I grew up among many: Jewish, Russian, Albanian, Yugoslavian, German, Dominican, Puerto Rican, Guyanese/West Indian, Mexican, African American, Asian, Hicks, assholes, dumbasses, ignorant AAAAND intelligent people *deep breath*... Did you notice something? In today's politically correct America I had to say African American. Now why is that? Of all the black people I grew up around and hung around as close friends I didn't know ONE that ever been to Africa or would want to go there. Also, I have never once heard George Jr. in his too many years in office, nor Clinton before him (and so on) EVER reference White America or Anglo America, not even for votes. There would be pandamonium in every major metropolitain American city if those references were to be uttered from their lips to the nation. I would ask my friends why is that... Why is it okay to have a United Negro College Fund and not a United Hispanic College Fund, Asian or GOD forbid a United Anglo College Fund.. They would grin and bring up that old 400 years of oppression excuse.. Meanwhile, not one of them knew a slave nor were they related to one... YET they wouldn't be the least bit hesitant to accept a reparation check. To me Obama has this same mentality. I certainly don't like it. I would be the least surprised if he, as a president, tried to paint the White House black.

Again, I'm not racist, just fed up with excuses blaming another race for self destruction. If it makes anyone feel better I equally despise seeing Mexicans waving the Mexican flag on American soil making demands to be part of America. Another example of ignorance rearing its ugly head. I learned people who most preach against racism are usually the biggest racists there is.

I heard it all my life and if I bought into some of the crap that I was exposed to I'd be sitting in a ghetto somewhere bitching that my welfare check wasn't right hollering, "the man got me down cuz." And don't get me started on the mess Houston has been in since Hurricane Katrina. Aside from the rise in crime there I witnessed a beautiful home I would have loved to purchase that was given for free by FEMA to a victimized family and NOW that house is a pile of trash. I watched once as the passenger door of a brand new Tahoe with Louisiana plates opened as the occupant dumped garbage out the vehicle onto the street in broad daylight. What a lack of respect. But just try to approach people like that and see what happens. These things consistantly appaul me. African Americans are not all the same. Again, they are NOT all the same. There are just too many ignorant ones looking for an excuse. But I know lots of intelligent Afro Americans that support my views.

Anyway, if I have offended anyone then just let me have it. I can take it. I'll even apologize if I must, but I won't apologize for loving our country and wishing for a better way of things and ill-events that reduce us to a laughing stock for the rest of the world. The Norwegians here think our current leader is an idiot. What does that say about us as a nation? Now excuse me as I play the Yankee Doodle theme...
 
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I'm gonna put a couple things out there just for food for thought. Don't assume by any of this that I am supporting one candidate over another. These are just a couple of things to think about when it comes to the real issues in this election. And isn't that what it should really be all about, the issues facing us?

Iraq
How long should we remain in Iraq? What is our real goal there, and how will we know when it's been met How much is that worth in terms of life, limb, and money? Would you have supported the invasion if you had been told that 5 years later we would still be there with no real end in sight?

Yes, Saddam is long gone, but there has been a huge power vacuum created that has not yet been filled. Who can fill it? I personally think that in this particular case it will take another ruler with the strength and influence that Saddam had, in other words another dictator. There is simply too much unrest, mistrust, and hate between different factions there to agree on anything.

I was a Marine, so I am not "against" war, but maybe because I was a Marine, I need to see some very good reasons and goals to go to war. I know exactly what it is like to come under fire for no good reason, and to lose comrades in arms for no good reason. If we were to leave Iraq and they fall under another brutal ruler, have we done just that?

As you can see I am personally torn over the issue. I don't know what the right answer is, but I do know that our government needs to be talking about it constantly until they do stumble upon that answer. And they also need to be open to any ideas, you never know where the good ones will come from.

Health Care
If you expect the government to provide good roads, well then why not good medicine? If you can rely on them to provide for your security when flying (or any other time in reality), then why not the security that preventive medicine can provide for your family? If we are so rich that we can give billions to oil companies and spend billions each day to fight a war, then why can't every child in this country get adequate health care?

You can look at this in a number of ways, but any way I look at it I come to the same conclusion. Every citizen of this country deserves the right not to die or become permanently disabled due to the lack of adequate health care. The Declaration Of Independence states that life is an unalienable right, if that is true than isn't the preservation of life also a right? If we can export our medicine to unfortunate people in other parts of the world why can't we do it for the unfortunate folks living in our country?

I really believe that providing health care to all citizens is a sign of truly modern and evolved country. Why not do it? Sure, not all the ideas these guys have of the hows are good, but what I want to know is why not? Again, if our government were willing to listen to ideas from all sides, we might just come up with a good how.


Energy
It's obvious that our current energy program is flawed to put it lightly. We are in serious trouble. It is killing our economy, which will take years to recover, if it can at all. It is a serious threat to our national security.

The current administration seems to have bungled this beyond belief. Maybe they are tied too close to the industry, though you think that would have helped, not hurt.

This is an issue that is going to effect every single citizen every single day. And it is way past time for all the candidates to talk about this in very real terms, with some concrete ideas. Why do we all let them off the hook so easily?

Immigration
This is one of those great, emotional issues that politicians love to use to divide the country and to get you on their sides. The only thing that has more fear attached to it is terrorism.

Again, this is an issue that I am very split on. This country was founded and based upon having an open door of sorts, to give folks from around the world a chance at a better life. And it has in turn made us a better country.

Think about what kind of place this would be without the contributions of the Italian immigrants. Or the Irish immigrants. Or in recent times the Asian immigrants, who had much to do with the soar in technology and the soar in the economy and way of life that owes much to that. Yes, right now the Mexican and Central American immigrants are mostly involved with manual labor, but so were these other groups when they first got here. It's the way this country works, and it seems to have worked pretty good for the last couple of hundred years.

I believe that we need to make legal immigration attainable. Because we are doing our best to make it not so. A closed society is always destined to fail, look at history.

On the other hand, we need to make sure that illegal immigrants are not availing themselves to public services paid for by the citizen and legal residents of this country. I think that is the brunt of the problem, and could be remedied quite easily and quite quickly with just a couple of pieces of legislation.


I haven't even heard anyone (candidates, etc.) really talk about any of these issues, much less the scores of other issues that still face this country such as Social Security and education. It's a real shame that this election doesn't seem to be about the issues and the answers.

So there you have it, a little food for thought. Let's make this election about the issues facing this country, not the personalities or political parties of the candidates. I can hope, right?
 
And while I'm at it, I think that they should change the format for the Presidential debates completely.

I believe that each debate should be restricted to one issue. Imagine if we were to have individual debates surrounding each of these issues that I pointed out, as well as any others that are "important" enough to have their own debates.

Candidates wouldn't be able to rely on soundbites for an full hour talking about Iraq or health care. They would be forced to think through their positions and to present them to us in a clear and detailed manner. That sure would be a welcome change in my book.
 
OCBob said:
....

Candidates wouldn't be able to rely on soundbites for an full hour talking about Iraq or health care. They would be forced to think through their positions and to present them to us in a clear and detailed manner. That sure would be a welcome change in my book.

Wouldn't that be something?!??! :) Great posts, Bob... I will debate a little latter, and (attempt) to answer some of your questions. :D
 
Black1 said:
Mr. Obama did it, he made history. Congratulations to him, his family, and the African-American citizens of this great Nation. Enjoy your night, sir. I'm not voting for you, but this night, you deserve it.

Cheers.

Well said!
 
I can't believe this but Bobby actually makes some sense. I was not attacking anyones position on labels. But I do feel it's wrong ! One day maybe people will come together for the common good and get over themselves ? It would be nice wouldn't it :D Having grown up in a Hispanic community and being the first white boy to graduate my high school, I have a different view of things. I adopted a black kid...I have no issues with race at all. If you are naive enough to think that race is not a predominating issue in this campaign then you are living with you head buried in the sand. It's an issue because he is the first of his kind...Just as Jackie Robinson was in his time. Whether spoken or implied it's there like a 2 ton heavy thing on his shoulders.

Personally if Hilary was not such a lying snatch of a disingenuous human being she would have probably got my vote as well. My problem is with the religious right in the Republican party. They control it now and policy has been made in accordance to that. I hate it and feel it not only has destroyed the very foundation the party was started on but has made our country more isolated in the process. It polarizes people and it is exclusionary. McCain although a hero and a Senator of my home state has said and done absolutely nothing to distance himself from the right side of the party. He is trying to please everyone and can't. For that reason he will lose and lose badly in November. He has no grasp of the issues and debates like a school girl on her first period. Obama will destroy him face to face just watch and see. I do have some serious issues with Obama as well. I don't care for his stated policy on troop withdrawal from Iraq. You can't run from it. The position we are in it would destabilize the Middle East to no end. Iran would be the power broker and lord only knows why that part of the Axis of Evil has not been crushed. The World would be a safer place had we done that instead.

But to sit and pontificate upon what could have been or what might be is useless. We made a serious mistake going to War with no clear objective and piss poor planning. Our Generals on the ground are idiots and we have learned nothing from Korea and Viet Nam....and yes there are some real parallels to be drawn from them when discussing our policy in the Middle East. Quite simply Bush is a Moron and his advisory staff are abject Morons. What a cluster Fuck they turned out to be and I am sorry I voted for them. I won't make that mistake again....
 
Prof said:
I don't know if Obama is a racists or not...I do know that lots of people have referred to themselves as Irish Americans, Italian Americans, German Americans and they were accepted for that...heck I am a Korean American, my kids are Korean-English Americans...

The titles are just that titles and everyone is entitled to retain their cultural background if they so desire. (Hell Stinker claims to be a Hillbilly American!) These are words, depending on your personal views may offend you. Heck rich American, poor American, Southern American, left coast American...they are just words...not necessarily philosophies.

I think many are making way too much of this issue...

I am worried about the amount of seasoning that Obama seems to have, or not have. He is very liberal...but that seems to be what the democrats want to have as our leader. (Last time I checked having a two party system is as American as the right to own a gun.)

A huge amount will depend on the staff the new President selects. If he were to have a Rove, Wolfowitz, Cheney advisor group, he would become very hawkish over night. The President has to rely on their advisers because of the magnitude of the position...hell, anyone in that job has to have huge amounts of help. So the cabinet and his personal staff will be incredibly important...and maybe that will be something that we see in the distant future...who are the policy makers that will be next to the President...they are the ones that truly make the policy.

I feel that McCain will have the best staff because of his contacts, his years of experience and the huge financial resources of the Republican National Committee. But we will have to wait and see.

Got to agree with Roy here!

I clearly remember how this country pulled together as Americans right after 9/11.

I wish we could get that atmosphere back, just without the carnage!;)
 
Bob, you’ve brought up some good, yet difficult to answer, topics of discussion. I am a simple American with personal thoughts and nothing more. What I believe is not meant to be imposed on others. They may be countered and challenged or agreed with... that's everyone's right.

First and foremost, forgive me for not knowing sooner that you were, I mean ARE a Marine. :congrats:I salute you as I do all of the men and women that fought and died for this country.

To convey my thoughts on Iraq I feel we are in a very terrible situation with no right answer, unless the over 4,000 lives lost in battle and cowardly bombs don’t mean anything. I, like hopefully all Americans, weep for this dilemma. I didn’t support the war to begin with. I was very upset during the opening hours of Desert Storm. In my opinion problems and political unrest that occurs in other countries should be left there. Our government spends way too much of our tax money on war, weapons and for aid to countries that wouldn't give a squirt of urine for the United States. Would I have supported the invasion if I knew we would be at a stand-still with US soldiers still being terminated 5 years later? NOPE!! But what now? If we were to suddenly back away and realize these people don’t want democracy.. Well then all of those who gave their lives will be a huge waste. Meanwhile, if we were to continue in that part of the world we certainly aren’t gaining enough positive popularity with the indigenous peoples of the Middle East. At the end of the day we are all infidels despite the unappreciated efforts wasted in that part of the world. When one head is cut off another rises in its place to take up the hate for America. Simple as that. It’s a never ending situation, a revolving door sort of speak. Perhaps our involvement with Israel shouldn’t be so close and intense, because lets face it; They are very arrogant with America backing them while Islam curses us for standing with them. But sorry, I digress from the topic at hand and I certainly don’t mean to offend Israeli supporters if there are any in here..

Saddam was sort of a moderator. I think Iraq needed such a tyrant to keep them in line, like Cuba needs Castro, like New York City needed Gulliani . Looking at Iraqi ancient history there was, for the most part, always some sort of ruler that sternly reigned with an iron fist in that part of the world, even before it was Iraq. Like you said Bob perhaps another dictator will be required in that country. I mean, most of the people there were used to Saddam's ways. We traded our soldiers to die so that the population in Iraq wouldn’t be destroyed by Saddam. My head is shaking "NO" with disgust...

Hypothetically speaking, if our 'weapons of mass destruction controlling president' suddenly decided to use the military to kill a multitude of American civilians, lets say a small city or town just because, and he could get away with it, does anyone in their right mind believe Iraqis will come to our aid saying “hey you Bush, leave those people alone or we’ll invade your country and take you down since you have weapons of mass destruction.” I don’t really believe that would happen. So if leaders like Saddam are the reason for US invasion then why aren’t we going after North Korea? Why not just step on Iran? There’s no question if there’s weapons of mass destruction in these places... complete with a nut seeking to nuke someplace that displeases them. These are a couple guys that pose a threat to the world, not just their own country...

Weapons of mass destruction.. That was Bush’s BS excuse to finish daddy’s fight. Dammit, those are our brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers and fellow Americans perishing over there. Not one member of the Bush family though. I don’t like the idea of raising my daughter so she would possibly have to die for some foreign cause in some foreign country that dislikes America. Is it just me? Is our government looking at our fallen military soldiers as population control?

Which brings me to healthcare. It friggen sucks. I think comedian Dave Chappelle coined the idea of getting access to fake Canadian ID cards. If something goes wrong we just go there and get checked out for free. But of course that wouldn’t happen here. Politicians are too busy getting their retirement plans and benefits squared away and ready to care greatly for them on our tax nickel. Meanwhile veterans such as yourself can simply go down to the local VA hospital and take whatever they can give you. I think United States veterans should have access to such top shelf healthcare. But again it’s like population control. If you die (regardless of what the Declaration of Independence says) the government just keeps on truckin’…. You’re buried, remembered by your loved ones until they too get old and pass, then more and more you’re forgotten until you are non-existent in the heart and minds of anyone (unless you make a major mark in society and the world).

I have no clue why we export things like medicine when there are so many people right here that need it. I’ve been wondering about that since I was a kid viewing Live Aid during the 80’s. The money blown everyday could have very well been used to care for our own and provide adequate health coverage for every citizen regardless of age for free. Canada does it. England provides money for children born then their government provides an apartment for the child when they mature and even money each month to get them on their way with life. HERE? We have to pay through our noses for a good education while it is given away for free to foreigners that don’t appreciate this nation. I speak from experience on this. When I was in college in NY back in 2001 waiting to speak with a counselor to begin my second semester, I was sitting in a waiting room with two other younger Middle Eastern students. One was explaining to the other about what forms to fill out to obtain free government grants for schooling. I was pissed because I wasn’t holding one of those forms. I was holding a student aid form that stated I had to repay the government with interest following my graduation. You can imagine how delighted I was feeling. Land of the free? No not if you’re from here. Middle class working Americans are the driving force regarding financial power for this country. We are taxed after being taxed followed by another tax. We’re like taxed to be taxed. But get sick without a good healthcare plan, that I may add isn’t free, and you’re F*#KED my fellow Americans.

Energy… Yes THEY ARE tied in too close to the industry. It helps THEM because once THEY are out of office THEY will still be reaching out to collect the financial gains THEIR oil stocks are generating during our pain-fill-ups at the pump. They’re helped… we hurt.. No more to say about that.

Immigration…. This country is a melting pot.. Period. Hell I am evidence of that. Not one of us has a real native American last name like Sitting Bull or Canyon Spring or Running Wolf. The contributions by immigrates from all over the world made this great nation what it is.. However with the good there is bad. This is the case with everything. Unfortunately there’s worse along with good now. Loop holes in the Declaration of Independence and Constitution have been repeatedly exploited to gain the edge. So amendments have to be made that eventually fall apart. The Founding Fathers would cringe miserably at the condition our country is in today. When Thomas Jefferson first drafted the Declaration of Independence he could not have known what it would have led to during contemporary times. Their focus was meant to address the crisis and issues of 18th century America and build a nation devoid of government oppression (although sometimes I see nothing else in sight). They didn’t say “Freedom of religion” just so some extremist of the Islamic faith can say they’re offended by the Christianity this country was founded on, waltz through our borders freely demanding not to be racially profiled at the airports, declare it unfair for my child to pray in school, hop onto an airplane, hijack it and kill thousands of Americans in the name of Allah…. Are they friggen kidding me? During 911 I was standing next to a doctor of Middle Eastern origin looking at the burning towers 1 and 2 of the WTC laughing and saying “America had it coming and deserves this.” Of course had I physically lashed out at him in anger I would have earned myself a free trip up the river. Television cameras on the NJ side of the Hudson caught cheering Middle Eastern students (likely enjoying free schooling) embracing what they felt was a fun sight of the WTC bellowing smoke into the blue skies of the Tuesday morning. Yes there is definitely need for a closer look at who comes here and for what real purpose.

Now legal immigration is great. I don’t agree with rushing in here with a belly to give birth on American soil or marrying an American to obtain a green card is right. Immigrants of the 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries paid their dues to become a significant part of American society. Why should we bow to the demands of any foreign national saying they HAVE to be accepted with THEIR religion and THEIR beliefs and THEIR total lack of desire to learn the English language?

It’s not just illegal immigrants we should worry about there are also legal immigrants availing themselves to public services by John Q Citizen and legal residents of this country. As an example (then I’ll let off this subject, finally), Russian immigrants are currently given Brooklyn, NY apartments to live in along with free debit cards, food stamps, healthcare and welfare all as a welcome mat. My nuts hurt from all the kicks they're getting from the government.

In closing, I think of John Adams and his plight in trying to set this nation in motion as an independent haven from the ancient beliefs and ways of the rest of the world. How sad to see it this way today.



OCBob said:
And while I'm at it, I think that they should change the format for the Presidential debates completely.

I believe that each debate should be restricted to one issue. Imagine if we were to have individual debates surrounding each of these issues that I pointed out, as well as any others that are "important" enough to have their own debates.

Candidates wouldn't be able to rely on soundbites for an full hour talking about Iraq or health care. They would be forced to think through their positions and to present them to us in a clear and detailed manner. That sure would be a welcome change in my book.

I concur... Now it's time for bed. Goodnight America...
 
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Post 67 through 74 have a lot of common sense in them and a lot of critical thought that should be read carefully and often...thanks friends for taking the time to express some great thoughts and perplexing issues.
You guys rock...
 
Prof said:
Post 67 through 74 have a lot of common sense in them and a lot of critical thought that should be read carefully and often...thanks friends for taking the time to express some great thoughts and perplexing issues.
You guys rock...

Too bad I couldn't get post #75 in on time before class was dismissed.. :stupido2:My dog ate it so I had to start over. I guess I'll take a C-..:dontknow:
 
I did read your post...our posts crossed in the ether!

Love these threads in which some of the real thinkers come out to play, and others expose themselves for just what they are...I often wonder if those that can't write are also unable to read...or is it the other way around? Then I wonder if those that seem to be unable to think are aware of the incredible image they leave behind... There are some here that intentionally garble their prose to perpetuate an image...and those are also unmasked when these kind of issues arise.

We all have public and private persona...the ones I worry about are the ones that have no idea how ludicrous they sound.

Anyway, those with very narrow perspectives that are unsubstantiated by facts provide interesting cannon fodder for the more informed. But that is not to say that their opinions are to be ignored...we get a cross section of our society contributing here...and that is good for all of us. Some are just hard to take seriously.

Alright Stick, you are off my ignore list...
 
Some very interesting reading in this thread!

I don't have a lot of time, but I want to say a few things...

1. I cringe every time I hear someone say that Bush is a moron, or he is stupid, or whatever....(I love ya Mikey) If the man was that stupid, he wouldn't be President. He did not get to where he is by being a dumb man. You may not like the things he's done, you may think that he is a poor orator and I agree. Stupid? No. He has been mis-informed on a lot of things, including the WMD stuff in Iraq, and it's his fault for choosing the staff that he did. But, his staff were not the only people telling him that Iraq was a threat, the UN inspectors did too. They never could fully account for all of the weapons that Iraq had record of, and they didn't buy it when Saddam said they were destroyed. But I digress... I think Bush is a poor speaker, and has not done himself any favors by hiring inept speech writers, but I don't think he is a stupid man.


2. Universal Health Care will cause more problems here than it will be worth! I have seen UHC in action in Canada, and I was not impressed at all with what I saw! Further, who do you think will pay for this health care? Yep, you and me and Bobby McGee, obviously. The problem I have with that is that the people who don't have jobs, who won't be paying for the system, will be it's biggest leeches. That is because poverty, when it comes to health, is a double-edged sword. The poverty stricken, because of poor diet and hygiene, will have more health-related issues, making them the largest benefactors of the UHCS. While I agree that these people need, and deserve, some help. I don't think that it is fair that they will be benefitting the most from it. I haven't worked out in my head exactly how to fix that, but I don't think that a Universal Health Care System is the answer.

3. If we leave Iraq now, not only will it destabilize the region, but I believe it will be seen by the radicals as a sign of weakness. I agree that there needs to be a plan, a definite timed plan for finishing up, and moving on. But, I don't believe that Obama sees it that way, he wants to just pull the plug. I would love to see our military return home, but I would hate to see the aftermath in that region, and all of the terrorist acts that would follow all around the world.

4. Obama has said that he wants to meet with all of the Terrorist leaders and others when he becomes President. Weellllll ok! How do you think that these radical Muslims are going to handle that, since in their eyes he is a heretic? He is the child of a Muslim man, therefore in their eyes a Muslim. He has since denounced that faith and become a Christian, that is heresy in the eyes of the Muslim faith. I don't believe that he will be accepted in Muslim circles well because of it.

That's my $.02 for now...
 
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I can't trust Obama. I've liked some of the things he's said but I get this feeling it's just telling people what they want to hear in order to make it into office. I don't know what his true agenda is once he gets into office. He may do a complete about face from what he's been selling us. I think we've seen some of it leak out already with his ex-preacher and not putting his hand over his heart etc.

I feel like there are some racial and religious tendencies there that he is suppressing to further his cause. I agree that the country needs "change" but we need to hear his plans on how he's going to make things better for us all. And I don't think that's what he has in mind. Call me suspicious.
 

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