What is the Viper market going to do?

GTS 96-99 are the good ones...no one cares about a 2000 no matter what the color. 01/02 (excluding red/whitte stripe FE 02) even for a bumble bee will bring much less money because of the hyperteutonic pistons...

and not to put you down at all, if you have the cash buy the car. when i bought mine i was in the market for a specific car...96GTS, and the car was going to be driven so mileage was not much of an issue.

not many guys on here have had vipers...Me, Pat, Dom's dad had one(03 i think)...maybe one or 2 more...your better off buying what you want then searching for a deal...trust me. If I could find a nice 96 GTS with 50k miles for a good price I would take it...but then again i drive mine in the rain, do burn outs and let friends drive it (with me in the car)
 
I had a Viper...until a month and a half ago...If you're looking for an investment, there are plenty of other less-risky options. If you're looking for a car (you know, to drive), then go for it.
 
The older ones did have totally forged engines, but that made them no better in fact the gen 3's are the best one out there. Go take a 96 GTS around willow springs for an afternoon. You WILL blow at least one head gasket. The newer the better if you ask me, and as far as an 06 for high 30s??? Nope that aint happnin. I just bid an 06 Coupe up to 45k today at Oralndo dealers Auto Auction. If its that cheap its shilled ebay deal or a unmet reserve, or something bad. The older 99-backs are in the 30's, as are the 03 SRT-10s, which would BY FREAKING FAR be my pick, they are SOOO much faster and the body construction is 1000 times better period no can argue, and if you do its because thats what you own. Ive had a ton O' Vipers and Im teling you how it is. Dont buy one for inventment either, sorry about the ol-lady excuse, but they arent going up I freaking promise you. My advice?, go with a mid-high 30's price range and it should'nt drop very much if you dont put a ton of miles on it. Go for an 03 if possible.
 
Django said:
Hyperteutonic pistons.............? :dontknow:

D
Click to expand...


A marketers way of saying "not forged"....my CTS V has pistons that are 'marketed' that way...

And I believe that Robert is correct...if you want a Viper buy a brand new one, drive the shit out of it and never look back when you sell it. Vehicles are to be driven not used as investment property.
 
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robwclark said:
The older ones did have totally forged engines, but that made them no better in fact the gen 3's are the best one out there. Go take a 96 GTS around willow springs for an afternoon. You WILL blow at least one head gasket. The newer the better if you ask me, and as far as an 06 for high 30s??? ....................
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BS.

There's a reason that alot of the Viper engineers have stock motor Gen II GTSs as track cars. They are freakin bulletproof motors, good for 800 rwhp "safely" in stock form. Try twin turbo'ing a stock SRT motor and see what happens. There are lots of TT "stock motor" Gen II cars on the road.

If you want to mod and make big power safely on a stock motor, buy a forged motor Gen II. If you don't care about modding and are satisfied with 430 rwhp, buy a Gen III.

I don't see any of these cars going much lower in price. They may stay where they are but I don't think they'll go much (if any) lower. IMO, the econony is already on the upturn (see stock market recovery and the rise in home values). I think these car values will stabilize and possibly go back up as the economy recovers.
 
Yeah, the headgasket issue has been with the Gen I's, not the Gen II's. And for the record, it's hypereutectic pistons. Higher silicon content makes the metal lighter and able to be built to tighter tolerances, but more brittle.
 
Prof said:
A marketers way of saying "not forged"....my CTS V has pistons that are 'marketed' that way...
Click to expand...

Actually, it has nothing to do with marketing. Here's a description of what it means for those interested (shameless cut & paste from another site):

"Hypereutectic" refers to a metallic alloy which has a composition beyond the eutectic point. In materials sceience, the word eutectic refers to a specific ratio of chemical composition at which the constituent elements will form a single, homogeneous phase when cooled. Above or below this ratio, separate chemical phases will form during cooling due to insolubility of one constituent in the other. Most metals are not eutectic, and have different phases present in their cooled form. Hypereutectic pistons are made of an alloy of aluminum which has much more silicon present than is soluble in aluminum at the operating temperature. Hypereutectic aluminum has a lower coefficient of thermal expansion, which allows engine designers to specify much tighter tolerances.
The most common material used for automotive pistons is aluminum due to its light weight, low cost, and acceptable strength. Although other elements may be present in smaller amounts, the alloying element of concern in aluminum for pistons is silicon. The point at which silicon is fully and exactly soluble in aluminum at operating temperatures is around 12%. Either more or less silicon than this will result in two separate phases in the solidified crystal structure of the metal. This is very common. When significantly more silicon is added to the aluminum than 12%, the properties of the aluminum change in a way that is useful for the purposes of pistons for combustion engines. However, At a blend of 25% silicon there is a significant reduction of strength in the metal, so hypereutectic pistons commonly use a level of silicon between 16% and 19%. Special moulds, casting, and cooling techniques are required to obtain uniformly dispersed silicon particles throughout the piston material.

Just in case anyone wanted to know....
 
Prof said:
A marketers way of saying "not forged"....my CTS V has pistons that are 'marketed' that way...

And I believe that Robert is correct...if you want a Viper buy a brand new one, drive the shit out of it and never look back when you sell it. Vehicles are to be driven not used as investment property.
Click to expand...

I believe what needs to be clarified here is the difference between the words "Teutonic" and "hypertonic" ... To my knowledge, nobody "markets" anything called "hyperteutonic"... Sounds like a cross between the mechanical and ancient anthropology..... There's also something known as "hyperutectic". But "hyperteutonic" is a new one on me..........

BurntRubber said:
GTS 96-99 are the good ones...no one cares about a 2000 no matter what the color. 01/02 (excluding red/whitte stripe FE 02) even for a bumble bee will bring much less money because of the hyperteutonic pistons...
Click to expand...

Just making a point as to nomenclature...........No offense, Carlo...... Love ya, bro....


D
 
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^^^^f@ckin Tim...you are my spell check...hahahaha
GenI - heavyweight engine had head gasket problems
GenII - Not totally forged, bottom end not forged and wil give out at 900rwhp (give or take) PS...96GTS motors were the most carefully crafted, thus the best motors out there as far a stock platform (i know the 98+ had a 708 cam). the hypertoenitnidcitic 00-02 (how ever you spell it are better than cast)
GenIII - good for 700rwhp. cast piston
GenIV - if i could buy one new i would, but there just freaking ugly compared to a GTS.

a stock 96-99 GTS could probably turn 250k miles and be tracked every weekend. I know a guy on the VCA opened his engine at 170k miles and the thing looked brand new.
 
ViperTruck2933 said:
BS.

There's a reason that alot of the Viper engineers have stock motor Gen II GTSs as track cars. They are freakin bulletproof motors, good for 800 rwhp "safely" in stock form. Try twin turbo'ing a stock SRT motor and see what happens. There are lots of TT "stock motor" Gen II cars on the road.

If you want to mod and make big power safely on a stock motor, buy a forged motor Gen II. If you don't care about modding and are satisfied with 430 rwhp, buy a Gen III.

I don't see any of these cars going much lower in price. They may stay where they are but I don't think they'll go much (if any) lower. IMO, the econony is already on the upturn (see stock market recovery and the rise in home values). I think these car values will stabilize and possibly go back up as the economy recovers.
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Is not BS. Ive seen numerous and I mean personally seen numerous 96-99 forged engines with scarred cylinder walls & popped rings with Blowers. Yea the pistons hold up, and they are somewhat stronger, but not the rings. Gen II's are NOT bulletproof. Maybe it was just an archer thing, but either way they come apart to build again and again. My last one was a 99 GTS, and I NEVER got over 480 at the wheels, and I had done everything except power adders & rebuild the bottom end. Like I said maybe its just cause archer was doing the work, but I didnt see anyone else doing any better at the time. This was back in 03. Now today maybe things have changed on the gen 2's, but you can go Heads and cam on a gen 3 and get over 500 easy. A stock gen3 engine is twice the engine of anything in the past as long as you LEAVE IT ALONE. Yea if you turbo a stock engine the gen2's are somewhat stronger because the forged pistons keep the rings tighter, but they still pop if you dont watch them closely. For the record, the 96 GTS's did have turd engines IMO. They got it better in 97, but the 96's would blow headgaskets stock if you run them hard, let-alone with a power-adder. Chrysler replaced a record # of viper engines that year.

Economy does seem to be turning up a bit, but these cars will continue to drop just like they consistantly have over the years. I remember back in 01 maybe 02, I would think the same thing about th 94-95 RT/10's. Think about what I'm say'in here . . . . . a 95 RT/10 back in 2002 was only 7 model years old and still seemed like a kick-A ride. Follow me here . . . At the time they were in the mid-30's wholesale for a nice, low-miler. I remember thinking "They cant go much lower. They have to bottom out about here". Today, that same Viper I thought would have to bottom out at 35k, is now selling at the sale in the low-mid 20's. My thinking was wrong, just like that 1995 model in 2002, Give these current mid-$30's 99 or 2000 models 5 years, and watch them drop to the mid 20's along with the gen 3 cars falling to the low-$30's, and 07 - 08 model coupes dropping to the mid-high $30's. This is the nature of the industry. As new vehicles are released and new models replace prior models, the prior models get less and less desirable. It will happen like your kids growing, or mullets going out of style, you dont even notice it.

The Gen2/gen3 engine argument is really just opinions and everyone has different experiences. Me or TT viper guy could both be wrong, BUT, Trust me on the viper-value part of the post as I promise you Im on the money, or close to it.
 
BurntRubber said:
^^^^f@ckin Tim...you are my spell check...hahahaha
GenI - heavyweight engine had head gasket problems
GenII - Not totally forged, bottom end not forged and wil give out at 900rwhp (give or take) PS...96GTS motors were the most carefully crafted, thus the best motors out there as far a stock platform (i know the 98+ had a 708 cam). the hypertoenitnidcitic 00-02 (how ever you spell it are better than cast)
GenIII - good for 700rwhp. cast piston
GenIV - if i could buy one new i would, but there just freaking ugly compared to a GTS.

a stock 96-99 GTS could probably turn 250k miles and be tracked every weekend. I know a guy on the VCA opened his engine at 170k miles and the thing looked brand new.
Click to expand...

Once replaced yes they were fine, but the first of production was a huge mistake on chrysler's part. The headgaskets would blow on these things like crazy. . . . . I REMEMBER in person, I straight-up remember this crap. I worked for the 2nd largest volume Viper dealer in TX at the time and I remember the problems. They got the engine problem fixed at one point during the year, and the 97's were fine, but those first 96 engines were straight crap. I think it was Road & track or Motortrend even wrote an article on Chrysler's mistake. The bad part about the way these headgaskets blew, it almost always sent a considerable amount of coolant into the block and washed the bearings. It was a crappy deal yall.
 
robwclark said:
Once replaced yes they were fine, but the first of production was a huge mistake on chrysler's part. The headgaskets would blow on these things like crazy. . . . . I REMEMBER in person, I straight-up remember this crap. I worked for the 2nd largest volume Viper dealer in TX at the time and I remember the problems. They got the engine problem fixed at one point during the year, and the 97's were fine, but those first 96 engines were straight crap. I think it was Road & track or Motortrend even wrote an article on Chrysler's mistake. The bad part about the way these headgaskets blew, it almost always sent a considerable amount of coolant into the block and washed the bearings. It was a crappy deal yall.
Click to expand...


i read that article, they mentioned the water pump "puked" not a head gasket. The viper was fixed and back the next day
 
FerrariTruck said:
i read that article, they mentioned the water pump "puked" not a head gasket. The viper was fixed and back the next day
Click to expand...

No not that one, head gaskets, head gaskets. The article your talking about was their own test unit that had the water pump problem.
 
Piston Schmiston

It only matters when boosting, and if you are boosting you are not looking for investment money back. ABS Matters.

Ohh, and lets not forget the oil starvation/sump problems on the Gen3's. Keep em off the banks boys!
 
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My 97 has 30K miles on a stock motor, 10 pounds of boost, 660 rwhp, 710 rwtrq.

No headgasket issues, no piston issues, no piston rod issues, no ring issues. Bulletproof.



I'll take on a stock motor Gen III vert at the track any day. Bring it on. :burnout:
 
Do you think the first year could be an investment?

Their is a 92 Experimental test car on Ebay know, also a 93 with serial # 8. Both can be had for around 30k.
 
any year viper is a bang for the buck... Wether you make money i dont know but the car itself is worth every dollar....not the truck not so much:D
 
I say it only matters if you ever want to re-sell it some day... other wise the Viper is one sick car and I personally would love to invest in one:rock:
 
robwclark said:
Is not BS. Ive seen numerous and I mean personally seen numerous 96-99 forged engines with scarred cylinder walls & popped rings with Blowers. Yea the pistons hold up, and they are somewhat stronger, but not the rings. Gen II's are NOT bulletproof. Maybe it was just an archer thing, but either way they come apart to build again and again. My last one was a 99 GTS, and I NEVER got over 480 at the wheels, and I had done everything except power adders & rebuild the bottom end. Like I said maybe its just cause archer was doing the work, but I didnt see anyone else doing any better at the time. This was back in 03. Now today maybe things have changed on the gen 2's, but you can go Heads and cam on a gen 3 and get over 500 easy. A stock gen3 engine is twice the engine of anything in the past as long as you LEAVE IT ALONE. Yea if you turbo a stock engine the gen2's are somewhat stronger because the forged pistons keep the rings tighter, but they still pop if you dont watch them closely. For the record, the 96 GTS's did have turd engines IMO. They got it better in 97, but the 96's would blow headgaskets stock if you run them hard, let-alone with a power-adder. Chrysler replaced a record # of viper engines that year.

Economy does seem to be turning up a bit, but these cars will continue to drop just like they consistantly have over the years. I remember back in 01 maybe 02, I would think the same thing about th 94-95 RT/10's. Think about what I'm say'in here . . . . . a 95 RT/10 back in 2002 was only 7 model years old and still seemed like a kick-A ride. Follow me here . . . At the time they were in the mid-30's wholesale for a nice, low-miler. I remember thinking "They cant go much lower. They have to bottom out about here". Today, that same Viper I thought would have to bottom out at 35k, is now selling at the sale in the low-mid 20's. My thinking was wrong, just like that 1995 model in 2002, Give these current mid-$30's 99 or 2000 models 5 years, and watch them drop to the mid 20's along with the gen 3 cars falling to the low-$30's, and 07 - 08 model coupes dropping to the mid-high $30's. This is the nature of the industry. As new vehicles are released and new models replace prior models, the prior models get less and less desirable. It will happen like your kids growing, or mullets going out of style, you dont even notice it.

The Gen2/gen3 engine argument is really just opinions and everyone has different experiences. Me or TT viper guy could both be wrong, BUT, Trust me on the viper-value part of the post as I promise you Im on the money, or close to it.
Click to expand...

do you mean Arrow engines...

GenIII motors stock put down 440rwhp, why would you put on heads and a cam to pick up 60rwhp.
many GenII guys with Greg good heads or Striker heads and a cam are putting down over 500 to the wheels. heck Fat albert out here in AZ was pulling over 600 to the wheels N/A with higher compression.
with filters and smooth tubes I ran a 118mph trap in the 1/4 mile, and put down 420 to the wheels. bought the car with 38k miles, put a blower on it at 45k miles, did a leak down at 50k miles and it was consistent with good numbers across all cylinders?
Darius' 96 GTS (which has a heffner TT on it for 15k miles) has never had the engine open and everything on it has broken except the engine. he puts down 930rwhp.

and I agree, 99% of cars lose value....just so you know what im talking about, if bought a muscle car in 1965 for $3000 and kept it all original it might be worth $60-100k. If you put $3000 in the S&P500 it would be worth $267,600 at the end of 2008:D
 
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