Cracked bell housing, broken slave cylinder, broken clutch

[nathanfreke]

So, I did a manual conversion on my truck and recently I noticed it very hard to select gears when stationary and the clutch not releasing properly making shifting difficult sometimes.

I figured the slave cylinder needed shimming so decided to pull the box to do some measurements and shim appropriately.

When I pulled the box, I found quite a few interesting things.

Firstly, the centre force clutch had shed its metal ring, so that was the first thing to drop out of the bell housing once I split it. All the weights were just loose, and once the input shaft was removed, they fell out.

Next up, the slave cylinder seems to be broken. I can't remember what they look like from new, but i'm guessing it shouldn't look like the pictures?

Then I noticed 2 huge cracks around the bell housing, probably the explanation of the clutch release issues.

All this gear was brand new, and has covered a maximum of 3000 miles. Not been driven particularly hard either.

Pics for your perusal.... anyone experienced similar?

 

[amtrucker22]

Yikes! I am guessing the housing was bought used?

 

[nathanfreke]

Everything was brand new, brought from Venomous racing as they do the full conversion kit.

 

[amtrucker22]

Well I saw this in his 6-speed conversion thread when someone asked about warranty:

Yessir all parts are backed by Mopar warranty except clutch, flywheel, and driveshaft. Installed by me it'll have a 1 year warranty on workmanship sir. :congrats:

 

[ViperPete]

I wonder if the dowel pins were properly installed. If it was not installed 100% aligned- cracks could easily occur.

 

[nathanfreke]

The bell housing and box came pre assembled

 

[trussman]

Ouch. This might should be in the Venomous 1 Racing vendor threads. He will likely be along shortly to try and explain.

 

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

normal for centercrap clutches, that's why we no longer use them, the oem slave usually is not up to par either. bellhousing cracked because it either came loose from bolts not being tight or no dowels letting it twist

 

[VPRPWRD]

normal for centercrap clutches, that's why we no longer use them, the oem slave usually is not up to par either. bellhousing cracked because it either came loose from bolts not being tight or no dowels letting it twist

I completely agree on centerforce clutches, I had 2 fail on me. There won't be a 3rd time.

 

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

I completely agree on centerforce clutches, I had 2 fail on me. There won't be a 3rd time.

had so many fail sir the last one was brand new, and could not give it away, ended up in the j yard.

 

[VENOMOUS1 RACING]

Ok, first off CenterForce clutches have never given issue unless installed incorrectly. I personally use/sell them due to my personal experiences with them. There's not many Viper Trucks in this world that have my mileage (127k) and track record. My original conversion on my truck started with used parts including a 30k mile Centerforce from 1QuickSRT, a senior member who raced and daily drove this clutch before selling to me. I installed it and put well over a 100 passes and so many Mexico races I couldn't tell ya. Then add another 50k miles I put on it before it was slipping in 6th! Over 80k miles of abuse and DD.
I'll put a POLL up on here and see what feedback we get

Onto the slave and bellhousing. My opinion, and I'm sure we'll see many more from those who have removed/installed trans before will post up their opinions.
It's looks as if it wasn't aligned correctly during install. If Input shaft isn't aligned with hub of clutch going in and weights aren't centered during install I can see everything above happening.
Second scenario, this is more likely as I've done it myself and learned the lesson. There have been several others who've done it as well, whether they admit it or not
When installing trans, everything 100% aligned, yet can't seem to get trans to mate to bellhousing. You push and push and get close enough to start a bolt or two. Then you try other bolts, yet none will thread? Sooo..you tighten up the the bolts that started, to bring bellhousing closer to trans. As you do this, things are not 100% aligned anymore and you hear the crack. Busted bellhousing!
Why you ask, was it so difficult to install anyways??
The answer to your broken parts lies here, again, in my opinion, as I'm not there and we're judging by pics. Likely the slave bleeder was not open and you/installer was forcefully fighting the pressure in slave. With bleeder open this isn't an issue whatsoever but when closed, it's resilient to movement.
Post up some pics of clutch/flywheel as well please.

 

[VENOMOUS1 RACING]

The bell housing and box came pre assembled

This could explain some as well! Yes I sent them assembled, but it's normal practice install flywheel, clutch, then bellhousing, then tranny. So you were pulling entire trans to engine by bellhousing when you installed it. Again any force in the wrong way due due alignment with clutch hub or fighting Slave would surely crack bellhousing. Again, please post pics of clutch sir. We'll get it figured out.

 

[nathanfreke]

When you say fail, can you elaborate more?

Apart from the weights, which I've now removed the clutch operates OK.

One thing I have noticed, and it's put me off doing any form of aggressive launch with it is that the bloody thing stinks like you're killing it under any form of load... I fear it'll just melt if I give it the beans

 

[nathanfreke]

When I put the box on, it all went on sweet enough, just bolted straight up.

I've learned in my time not to force things if they are tight as something usually breaks.

I've sent the bell housing for repair, but obviously am concerned of it doing it again, given that it's happened so soon.

I'm ordering an updated Slave cylinder from roe racing today and hope to have it back together soon.

 

[nathanfreke]

Ok, first off CenterForce clutches have never given issue unless installed incorrectly. I personally use/sell them due to my personal experiences with them. There's not many Viper Trucks in this world that have my mileage (127k) and track record. My original conversion on my truck started with used parts including a 30k mile Centerforce from 1QuickSRT, a senior member who raced and daily drove this clutch before selling to me. I installed it and put well over a 100 passes and so many Mexico races I couldn't tell ya. Then add another 50k miles I put on it before it was slipping in 6th! Over 80k miles of abuse and DD.
I'll put a POLL up on here and see what feedback we get

Onto the slave and bellhousing. My opinion, and I'm sure we'll see many more from those who have removed/installed trans before will post up their opinions.
It's looks as if it wasn't aligned correctly during install. If Input shaft isn't aligned with hub of clutch going in and weights aren't centered during install I can see everything above happening.
Second scenario, this is more likely as I've done it myself and learned the lesson. There have been several others who've done it as well, whether they admit it or not
When installing trans, everything 100% aligned, yet can't seem to get trans to mate to bellhousing. You push and push and get close enough to start a bolt or two. Then you try other bolts, yet none will thread? Sooo..you tighten up the the bolts that started, to bring bellhousing closer to trans. As you do this, things are not 100% aligned anymore and you hear the crack. Busted bellhousing!
Why you ask, was it so difficult to install anyways??
The answer to your broken parts lies here, again, in my opinion, as I'm not there and we're judging by pics. Likely the slave bleeder was not open and you/installer was forcefully fighting the pressure in slave. With bleeder open this isn't an issue whatsoever but when closed, it's resilient to movement.
Post up some pics of clutch/flywheel as well please.

I only just saw this.

The box and bell housing went straight on. I've been there before trying to pull a bell housing on with bolts and learned that it doesn't work so am very careful now.

The only thing I didn't do, was open the bleed nipple on the clutch slave, but the bell housing was butted right up against the block so can't see this happening.

The crack the bell housing would have made from this would have been quite obvious.

I'd like to point out that the issues only started happening a couple hundred miles ago, which I guess is when the bell housing cracked.

I'm pretty baffled by it. Another thought I had, was I drove for a period with the prop out of balance and it was quite bad around 80mph. I wonder if the harmonic resonance caused the bell housing to crack?

The clutch was installed as per the instruction manual, with care to make sure the weights were centred.
I'm assuming the clutch will work fine without them on so its no real loss.

I was surprised how light the bell housing is. For something that has to transmit extreme force I thought it was pretty fragile.
However, it's obviously been tried and tested before hundreds of times.

I will check the dowels to the bell housing and box when I go to re fit it, make sure I've not missed something there.

 

[VENOMOUS1 RACING]

I only just saw this.

The box and bell housing went straight on. I've been there before trying to pull a bell housing on with bolts and learned that it doesn't work so am very careful now.

The only thing I didn't do, was open the bleed nipple on the clutch slave, but the bell housing was butted right up against the block so can't see this happening.

The crack the bell housing would have made from this would have been quite obvious.

I'd like to point out that the issues only started happening a couple hundred miles ago, which I guess is when the bell housing cracked.

I'm pretty baffled by it. Another thought I had, was I drove for a period with the prop out of balance and it was quite bad around 80mph. I wonder if the harmonic resonance caused the bell housing to crack?

The clutch was installed as per the instruction manual, with care to make sure the weights were centred.
I'm assuming the clutch will work fine without them on so its no real loss.

I was surprised how light the bell housing is. For something that has to transmit extreme force I thought it was pretty fragile.
However, it's obviously been tried and tested before hundreds of times.

I will check the dowels to the bell housing and box when I go to re fit it, make sure I've not missed something there.

Correct they are quite weak as far as casting goes. We have had others with RC truck crack theirs as well. I know when I cracked one it was due to slave fighting me and me fighting back and losing.
Upgraded hydraulics are great investment though for sure. Mine has taken launches on slicks and everything I've thrown at it though. Didn't you experience wheelhop after lowering? That'll do it as well

 

[nathanfreke]

Yes I did experience wheel hop of the worst order.... I only did it once or twice then got some custom shocks made and that totally cured it.

I have got an issue at the minute however, the axle seems to be moving so when I get on the gas the truck wants to go left, and when I lift off it straightens back up. It's not extreme, but it is a little disconcerting.

I was going to make some trailing arms to stabilise it

 

[Slitherbeast]

Yes I did experience wheel hop of the worst order.... I only did it once or twice then got some custom shocks made and that totally cured it.

I have got an issue at the minute however, the axle seems to be moving so when I get on the gas the truck wants to go left, and when I lift off it straightens back up. It's not extreme, but it is a little disconcerting.

I was going to make some trailing arms to stabilise it

retighten the ubolts holding the diff to it's springs. Sounds like there is movment there

 

[nathanfreke]

So I got the bell housing welded up.

Got some dowels for the bell housing as there were none in there.

Got the roe racing metal slave cylinder.

Got the prop balanced again and cut the final part of the chassis it was hitting (3 different sections it's hit now)

Fitted it all up and oh my, what a difference!

That clutch slave has transformed the truck!
Much nicer pedal feel, gear selection is like silk instead of having to practically snap the stick off to select the gear. Changing gear at high revs is clean, no clutch drag.

It's made the truck a true joy to drive.
It really highlighted how bad it was before, even when new.

Venomous - I highly recommend you offer this slave setup as an option, it seems the stock one is flawed so why spend thousands of dollars to have a product that isn't as good as it could be?

Just my opinion, but the truck is now how I like it and the first real time I've been happy with it since the manual conversion.

 

[VENOMOUS1 RACING]

So I got the bell housing welded up.

Got some dowels for the bell housing as there were none in there.

Got the roe racing metal slave cylinder.

Got the prop balanced again and cut the final part of the chassis it was hitting (3 different sections it's hit now)

Fitted it all up and oh my, what a difference!

That clutch slave has transformed the truck!
Much nicer pedal feel, gear selection is like silk instead of having to practically snap the stick off to select the gear. Changing gear at high revs is clean, no clutch drag.

It's made the truck a true joy to drive.
It really highlighted how bad it was before, even when new.

Venomous - I highly recommend you offer this slave setup as an option, it seems the stock one is flawed so why spend thousands of dollars to have a product that isn't as good as it could be?

Just my opinion, but the truck is now how I like it and the first real time I've been happy with it since the manual conversion.

It's the only option now bud as the truck slave was discontinued. It will be in my kits from now on and great to hear your issues are resolved. So much fun banging gears in a 4 door