7.0 Earthquake in Haiti

Allow me to quote a 16 year old South African:

"I am a 16 year old and have lived in the rural area for the past fourteen years. In all these past years I used a candle stick to study and do my homework. The chalkboard has been the mainstay teaching aid at school. When a few solar panels were installed at school, I did not have even a faint notion of how it was going to work. A few months later we received an overhead projector. That was the beginning of a new school experience. The following equipment was later received: 20 computers, 2 television sets, and a video machine. Recently we have been connected to the Learning Channel Campus and the Internet through the satellite. Learning is now going to be research oriented. That is, we shall use worksheets and we shall use the Internet as the main source of information. In the past we spent much of our time copying notes from the chalkboard. The school has set itself a new vision for the new millennium. It wants to produce learners who will follow careers in the fields of Science, Technology, Engineering, Medicine and others. This was a far-fetched dream a few years ago."

Cheap clean electrical power is fundamental to the future...some are adding access to electrical power as a new human right...without it there is little if any social progress. Without power there is no connectivity and no opportunity to participate in world commerce.
 
Prof said:
Allow me to quote a 16 year old South African:

"I am a 16 year old and have lived in the rural area for the past fourteen years. In all these past years I used a candle stick to study and do my homework. The chalkboard has been the mainstay teaching aid at school. When a few solar panels were installed at school, I did not have even a faint notion of how it was going to work. A few months later we received an overhead projector. That was the beginning of a new school experience. The following equipment was later received: 20 computers, 2 television sets, and a video machine. Recently we have been connected to the Learning Channel Campus and the Internet through the satellite. Learning is now going to be research oriented. That is, we shall use worksheets and we shall use the Internet as the main source of information. In the past we spent much of our time copying notes from the chalkboard. The school has set itself a new vision for the new millennium. It wants to produce learners who will follow careers in the fields of Science, Technology, Engineering, Medicine and others. This was a far-fetched dream a few years ago."

Cheap clean electrical power is fundamental to the future...some are adding access to electrical power as a new human right...without it there is little if any social progress. Without power there is no connectivity and no opportunity to participate in world commerce.

After many years of foreign journeys, a lot of folks may be surprised what is found overseas even in our modern times. What was quoted above, unfortuantely, is daily reality for a lot of folks in other countries. This 16 year old and his school are very fortunate to receive what they did. Most who are in need, never see it happen.
 
FastRam said:
After many years of foreign journeys, a lot of folks may be surprised what is found overseas even in our modern times. What was quoted above, unfortuantely, is daily reality for a lot of folks in other countries. This 16 year old and his school are very fortunate to receive what they did. Most who are in need, never see it happen.


One quarter of the world's population do not have electricity after dark...that's 1.6 billion people...and many of that 1.6 billion have no electricity at all.
 
Leadership is absent...nearly all of the politically powerful are corrupt...(what's new?)...

We complain about corruption here...but we are incredibly clean in comparison.

Haiti has needed a complete rebuild for years...with or without an earth quake. Jamaica is not far behind.

I spent some time teaching in Jamaica on Sundays...people in an MBA program...they were the most motivated and all of them were just trying to get the education necessary to get hired off the island...Haitians have no chance at all unless they get off their island.
 
Prof said:
Leadership is absent...nearly all of the politically powerful are corrupt...(what's new?)...

We complain about corruption here...but we are incredibly clean in comparison.

Haiti has needed a complete rebuild for years...with or without an earth quake. Jamaica is not far behind.

I spent some time teaching in Jamaica on Sundays...people in an MBA program...they were the most motivated and all of them were just trying to get the education necessary to get hired off the island...Haitians have no chance at all unless they get off their island.

You are of the same mind as I am on this, my friend... They are a bright, EXTREMELY eager and motivated people. Just (apparently) not with running their own government.

To my original point (Post #33)... If the whole world comes in and GIVES them all of this wonderful technology, new buildings, a paved road system, etc... spends a couple $Billion to basically make ourselves FEEL better... it will do the Haitians little good in the long run. They have to fix their own issues first. Government is one of the major issues to be addressed. Otherwise, it will be right back to the way it was/is in a matter of just a few years. ...... I think everyone LOVES to jump on the bandwagon and do good works in the name of humanity, without necessarily looking at the big, long-term picture.
 
Black1 said:
You are of the same mind as I am on this, my friend... They are a bright, EXTREMELY eager and motivated people. Just (apparently) not with running their own government.

To my original point (Post #33)... If the whole world comes in and GIVES them all of this wonderful technology, new buildings, a paved road system, etc... spends a couple $Billion to basically make ourselves FEEL better... it will do the Haitians little good in the long run. They have to fix their own issues first. Government is one of the major issues to be addressed. Otherwise, it will be right back to the way it was/is in a matter of just a few years. ...... I think everyone LOVES to jump on the bandwagon and do good works in the name of humanity, without necessarily looking at the big, long-term picture.


I have no expertise in reforming government...and have never spent much time thinking about it...but there is a model that worked wonderfully...Japan...

I don't know the specifics and I don't know how anyone would manage the world powers that want particular outcomes...but it has been done before. And there are lots of places that need a political solution, I can think of 10 or 12 off the top of my head!

Now may be the time to find a way...and it may require a heavy hand to get it done...
 
I will be the first to admit it. I'm a hard ass.

We could pour money into Haiti until they are choking on it, and it won't do a damn thing.

Saying that place is a third world county is doing a disservice to true third world countries. Haiti at best is a fifth world county.

What does that country have or produce? Not a god damn thing. We could totally rebuild it and in 5 years (probably less) it would be a cess pool again. They have no way of generating income to maintain it. They don't have anyway, or any resources to provide for themselves. They would be better off to abandon the place and then send in teams to reforest, and replant native plants. Then come back in 50 years after the country has recovered.

I don't care what you do to an outhouse, it's still an outhouse.
 
Prof said:
I have no expertise in reforming government...and have never spent much time thinking about it...but there is a model that worked wonderfully...Japan...

I don't know the specifics and I don't know how anyone would manage the world powers that want particular outcomes...but it has been done before. And there are lots of places that need a political solution, I can think of 10 or 12 off the top of my head!

Now may be the time to find a way...and it may require a heavy hand to get it done...

It's a damn funny thing.... freedom... It has so very many wonderful attributes. But, there is such a bloody path ahead for those who seek it. All I am saying is: If the Haitian people want to live in a free, prosperous, lawful society... they have a lot of work to do (on top of the 100 or so years they have been "trying"). No one can do that bloody, dirty work for them. And no one can go in and TELL them what the "need", either. That's not very much like "freedom" is it, Roy?
 
Let me go further in saying I have absolutely NO problem sending supplies and medicines during this disaster. It's the right thing to do! Just as we did for the Indonesian people after the tsunami, and countless other nations in need.

..... But, there is no need to go in and completely rebuild their country for them, either, IMO.
 
I hear what you and John are saying...but there is a tipping point beyond which it is just not feasible for a society to overcome the weight against them.

Freedom earned is the best, but in my mind not the only way...

Cruel harsh power brokers that are entrenched are difficult to root out. Maybe the route is as a protectorate of a larger power...Brazil was doing a good job of starting the change process under the auspice of the United Nations. Maybe they should be empowered to continue their work with more resources from around the world.

I don't think you can just write off 9 million people, that would make the Holocaust look like a dress rehearsal.

Currently there is world wide support...if we can find a way to sustain that effort...then the burden on anyone nation will not be onerous.
 
Prof said:
...but there is a tipping point beyond which it is just not feasible for a society to overcome the weight against them.
.....

We've tried all this with the other side of the island before (several times)... and Dominican Republic is still struggling with what we have "helped" to do.

The really unfortunate thing is... with all of the money, aid, and continual help we send all these countries on top of our own indiscretions and frivolous spending and freebies we dole out here... I'm quite fearful we are barreling toward the "tipping point" you speak of above. How naive and stupid have we become that we have so much fervor towards helping another sovereign nation when we don't even have the courage to fix ourselves?
 
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Just the reason that there is major health care reform in front of congress...fixing ourselves...
 
Prof said:
Just the reason that there is major health care reform in front of congress...fixing ourselves...

It's going to talk a LOT more than that.... :( (If that would even be concidered a "fix", and not a quantum leap backwards... but, that's a whole other thread. ;) )
 
Go to South Florida, and take a look at all the ghettos that used to be nice before the haitians moved in:mad: If we rebuild for them, and try to make their country a better place, they will just destroy it.
 
Silverback said:
I will be the first to admit it. I'm a hard ass.

We could pour money into Haiti until they are choking on it, and it won't do a damn thing.

Saying that place is a third world county is doing a disservice to true third world countries. Haiti at best is a fifth world county.

What does that country have or produce? Not a god damn thing. We could totally rebuild it and in 5 years (probably less) it would be a cess pool again. They have no way of generating income to maintain it. They don't have anyway, or any resources to provide for themselves. They would be better off to abandon the place and then send in teams to reforest, and replant native plants. Then come back in 50 years after the country has recovered.

I don't care what you do to an outhouse, it's still an outhouse.


You saved me a lot of typing John.....Haiti could be a resort island with tons of tourist money flowing in but they choose to live the way they do......we need to offer medical and food and leave it at that..
 
Silverback said:
I will be the first to admit it. I'm a hard ass.

We could pour money into Haiti until they are choking on it, and it won't do a damn thing.

Saying that place is a third world county is doing a disservice to true third world countries. Haiti at best is a fifth world county.

What does that country have or produce? Not a god damn thing. We could totally rebuild it and in 5 years (probably less) it would be a cess pool again. They have no way of generating income to maintain it. They don't have anyway, or any resources to provide for themselves. They would be better off to abandon the place and then send in teams to reforest, and replant native plants. Then come back in 50 years after the country has recovered.

I don't care what you do to an outhouse, it's still an outhouse.

I will concur with the 5th world comment, been there done that ;) And economics in Haiti are a challenge to say the least. Just when things calm down, investors and entrepreneurs become interested. When they get ready to begin OPS, all he!! breaks out again for differing reasons. As a result, investors and what not go bye bye never to be seen again. The folks I have met from there are motivated and want to do the right thing unfortunately many obstacles present themselves from this becoming a paradigm. Part of it is Government, part of it is corruption and opportunism, and part of it is desperation. Not sure what will happen long term but I can say our Government (and Military) and many in the International community are coming to the plate with aid.
 
Oh hell. I really need to go relax before going to bed, but I have a little more to say.

I really enjoyed the socialogy classes I took in college. I still take every opportunity to talk to people of other nationalities. It's interesting to hear their views on things.

What is it exactly that makes us different from other countries? Well we have a Constitution and a Bill of Rights, but what are they besides a piece of paper. They are much like money, which is nothing but a piece of paper also. What they are is a believe, and it's a believe that we have grown up with.

Does the Constitution that Iraq now has mean anything to those people. For the most part, no. They did not fight for it, nuture it, and believe in it. To them it's a piece of paper.

I know, what's this got to do with Haiti? It's the same thing. As I stated earlier, we can rebuild Haiti with the best of everything, but it was not worked for so it will not last.

You can even relate this to some children of rich families. Look at Paris Hilton. Did she earn anything? No. Is she a contributing member of society? Not really. Will the people of Haiti become contributing members of their society? For the most part, no. They don't know how, nor do they have the ability.

It's truely a sad situation in Haiti, but throwing money at it will not make it better in the long haul.

Time to go now and read for a view hours so I can sleep. And when you are as ugly as I am, you need all the beauty sleep you can get.:eek:
 

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