Comp Coupe Cam install??

[mopar_mudder]

have seen this mensioned a few times but never heard from anyone that has really installed one, I mean done it them selves. That info is hard to find on here as everyone seems to farm out the work to a "tunner".

Going to have the front end off the truck anyway so figure if I am going to do it now would be the easiest to get at the motor. I don't want to pull the heads. Is the oil pick up really connected to the timming cover? Meaning you have to pull the oil pan which means jacking up the motor. Going by the "book" it seems like alot of work for a cam install. But I know the book often has you do way more then need some times.

Is it worth it? need to make up my mind...........

 

[Begood]

I to was wondering if it is worth all the work involved.

Bill.

 

[Viper7777]

I thought about it myself, with the advice and reshearch i came up with, i came up with the conclusion go with a Paxton , blow up your motor then just start from scracth with a rock bottom end.

Thats what i plan on doing anyhow

 

[greatone61]

I thought about it myself, with the advice and reshearch i came up with, i came up with the conclusion go with a Paxton , blow up your motor then just start from scracth with a rock bottom end.

Thats what i plan on doing anyhow

We should pitch in for one Paxton then, let one person install it and blow up their motor, then take it off and send it to the next person to do the same thing!

 

[mopar_mudder]

I thought about it myself, with the advice and reshearch i came up with, i came up with the conclusion go with a Paxton , blow up your motor then just start from scracth with a rock bottom end.

Thats what i plan on doing anyhow

OK that would be the money is no object option, way out of my pocket book

 

[Texas Yellow Fever]

have seen this mensioned a few times but never heard from anyone that has really installed one, I mean done it them selves. That info is hard to find on here as everyone seems to farm out the work to a "tunner".

Going to have the front end off the truck anyway so figure if I am going to do it now would be the easiest to get at the motor. I don't want to pull the heads. Is the oil pick up really connected to the timming cover? Meaning you have to pull the oil pan which means jacking up the motor. Going by the "book" it seems like alot of work for a cam install. But I know the book often has you do way more then need some times.

Is it worth it? need to make up my mind...........

I have not installed a cam on one of these engines yet, but my understanding is that if you aren't changing the lifters. you do not have to pull the heads. The oil pump is in the timing cover, I don't know if you have to jack the motor up to take off the oil pan, or if taking it off is even required. Is it worth it, probably not if that's all you were going to do, but if you plan other mods and have the front of the motor off any way, why not...? I doubt that I would start a project to do just that, but if I were mostly there doing something else, I'd do it.

 

[mmmmtorque]

I have not installed a cam on one of these engines yet, but my understanding is that if you aren't changing the lifters. you do not have to pull the heads. The oil pump is in the timing cover, I don't know if you have to jack the motor up to take off the oil pan, or if taking it off is even required. Is it worth it, probably not if that's all you were going to do, but if you plan other mods and have the front of the motor off any way, why not...? I doubt that I would start a project to do just that, but if I were mostly there doing something else, I'd do it.

You have to drop the oil pan a little bit to take off the front cover. You dont have to jack up the motor.

 

[BOOMER]

have seen this mensioned a few times but never heard from anyone that has really installed one, I mean done it them selves. That info is hard to find on here as everyone seems to farm out the work to a "tunner".

Going to have the front end off the truck anyway so figure if I am going to do it now would be the easiest to get at the motor. I don't want to pull the heads. Is the oil pick up really connected to the timming cover? Meaning you have to pull the oil pan which means jacking up the motor. Going by the "book" it seems like alot of work for a cam install. But I know the book often has you do way more then need some times.

Is it worth it? need to make up my mind...........

drop the front of the pan a bit to get the front cover off, remove rockers & push rods, rotate cam over past 360 degrees to lift and stick lifters, confirm that they are up, R&R cam, lube the heck out of the new one. install new pushrods, & rockers, set lash with each cam lobe on facing away from the pushrod, tighten till you cant spin the rod & or no lash, then tighten half turn, confirm rockerarm tip is correct, ie push rod length is right. turn over engine a few times & recheck everything. when she is idling it should still sound like a gentle sewing machine with a hint of valve train noise.

 

[mopar_mudder]

drop the front of the pan a bit to get the front cover off, remove rockers & push rods, rotate cam over past 360 degrees to lift and stick lifters, confirm that they are up, R&R cam, lube the heck out of the new one. install new pushrods, & rockers, set lash with each cam lobe on facing away from the pushrod, tighten till you cant spin the rod & or no lash, then tighten half turn, confirm rockerarm tip is correct, ie push rod length is right. turn over engine a few times & recheck everything. when she is idling it should still sound like a gentle sewing machine with a hint of valve train noise.

Thanks for the info Boomer, it is sounding like I might take this on.

One thing though, you mension setting valve lash. Is the lash adjustable with the stock rocker arms. I thought they were a shaft mount arm with no adjustment. The service manual says nothing about adjusting the lash, just says:

"Install rocker arm and pedestal assemblies into
position. Ensure push rods are seated properly
under each rocker arm. Tighten rocker arm bolts to
35 N·m (26 ft. lbs.)."

Was hoping to get away with out setting lash, it is enough having to do it in my 440 with solid rollers, what a pain......

 

[mmmmtorque]

Not sure how you can really set lash on these rocker arms. Yes, you tighten to 26 ft lbs. Although, you should rotate the engine and recheck rod positioning and torque. After the new lifters pumped up, I rechecked the torque again.

 

[BOOMER]

Thanks for the info Boomer, it is sounding like I might take this on.

One thing though, you mension setting valve lash. Is the lash adjustable with the stock rocker arms. I thought they were a shaft mount arm with no adjustment. The service manual says nothing about adjusting the lash, just says:

"Install rocker arm and pedestal assemblies into
position. Ensure push rods are seated properly
under each rocker arm. Tighten rocker arm bolts to
35 N·m (26 ft. lbs.)."

Was hoping to get away with out setting lash, it is enough having to do it in my 440 with solid rollers, what a pain......

\
i was Assuming that you were running roller rockers

 

[mopar_mudder]

\
i was Assuming that you were running roller rockers

Nope sorry, everything else will be the stock stuff. I don't think that the Comp cam is agressive enough to really need anything other then stock.

Might have to use up the rebates on my Dodge card for a new cam :rock:

 

[Texas Yellow Fever]

when she is idling it should still sound like a gentle sewing machine with a hint of valve train noise.

Interesting...I don't recall ever hearing a sewing machine with valve train noise... :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow:

 

[TheMoparConnection]

you must pull the heads and you must also remove the oil pan. We have done many and its worth it if you plan on doing the rest of the mopar stuff..meaning mopar long tube w/o cats and mopar PCM..that PCM is calibrated for no cats and that comp cam..

 

[Bone]

I have been doing a 6.1 Cam and 6.1 Heads on my Hemi today (and tomorrow). It is plenty of work. Took about 6 hours, not counting lunch and BS, to tear it down and remove the Heads. Didn't have to remove the heads for the Cam (in Hemi) however, I am replacing the 5.7 heads with 6.1s, so I did.

I have heard as I recall for the Viper Cam about 10HP with it. Anyone know if that is correct? I was going to do it, along with Forged Pistons with the SC install.

These were some directions for the 6.1 Cam install to give you an Idea of time and effort require (Once again this is for the 6.1 Cam not Viper Cam)
Tools needed :

1/4 drive deep and reg. sockets metric/standard
3/8 drive deep and reg. sockets metric/standard
1/4 assorted extensions
3/8 assorted extensions
Swivel socket adapters 1/4 and 3/8
Spark plug socket or rubber hose
Pliers duck bill, needle nose, hose pinch off, etc.
Quick disconnect tool for hydraulic lines
3 jaw puller
Chrysler damper removal tool (rent from local parts store)
Chrysler damper install tool (rent from local parts store)
Breaker bar w/ 13/16 socket for damper bolt
Chain or strap wrench
Torque wrench 0-250ish in lbs. and 0-150ish ft lbs.
Pry bar
Mallet
Telescoping magnet
1/4 wrench set metric/standard
3/8 wrench set metric/standard
Jack and jack stands
Funnel
Drain pan or bucket
Fender covers or blankets
zip ties
bungy chords
wide painting tape
LOTS of rags

Parts needed:

Cam
Crank bolt
2-3 qt. ATF=4
2 gal coolant
2 gal distilled water
1 gal wiper fluid
Antiseize
Locktite
Engine assy. lube

Installation:

1. disconnect NEG battery cable and tape up brake booster
2. disconnect lower radiator hose at water pump inlet to drain radiator
3. disconnect both heater hose lines from inlet of water pump
4. disconnect both transmission cooler lines at radiator
5. disconnect both power steering lines at radiator
6. unbolt 5 bolts at front/bottom of oil pan
7. disconnect power steering sensor connector
8. disconnect oil sensor connector
9. disconnect water pump connector
10. disconnect alternator power wire and connector
11. disconnect both a/c connectors and remove bolt from behind a/c compressor driver’s side
12. disconnect upper radiator hose at radiator
13. disconnect radiator shroud and unbolt radiator overflow and wiper fluid tank
14. remove radiator assy. w/ power steering and transmission coolers attached
15. soak crank damper bolt w/ some type of lube (WD-40, LPS, etc)
16. remove spark plug coils, wires, and 1 spark plug per cylinder (coils and wires zip tie out of the way)
17. remove alternator
18. remove a/c compressor DO NOT disconnect any lines (secure on top of intake manifold)
19. remove power steering pump DO NOT disconnect hard lines (secure out of the way)
20. remove thermostat housing w/ upper radiator hose attached
21. remove thermostat
22. remove serpentine belt and tensioner pulley
23. remove both idler pulleys
24. unbolt oil dip stick and remove timing cover leaving the clutch fan and water pump attached
25. cover exposed portion of oil pan
26. remove misc. plastic clips from both valve covers and both bonding straps
27. remove both valve covers
28. remove both rocker shafts (unbolt from inner to outer bolts)
29. Ensure that the engine is in TDC as follows –
A. cam exciter ring pointer at 12 o’clock
B. crank key at 2 o’clock
C. timing chain painted single link at 12 o’clock
D. timing chain painted double links at 6 o’clock
E. your set it’s timed correctly (RE-INSTALL in same exact position)
30. pin cam tensioner w/ suitable allen key or drill bit
31. remove cam exciter ring
32. remove timing chain and set on top of oil pump
33. remove 3 bolts and lift out the cam tensioner plate
34. re-install cam bolt into cam and turn several rotations to move lifters out of the way
35. remove old cam out as straight and gently as possible so nothing gets damage
36. re-install in REVERSE order using lots of lube for the new cam
37. top off all fluids
38. RESET PCM
39. start up engine and let rev between 1500-2000 rpms for 2-3 mins
40. let engine idle and warm up for several minutes and leak check everything
41. TEST DRIVE and break-in cam for approx. 100 miles before driving like you stole it!

Torque specs:

Spark plug - 15 ft. lbs. use antiseize on all spark plug threads
Spark plug coil - 105 in. lbs.
Valve cover bolts/studs - 70 in. lbs. cross torque from center outward
Cam bolt - 90 ft. lbs. use oil before torqueing
Cam tensioner plate - 250 in. lbs.
Rocker shaft bolts - 195 in. lbs. use oil and cross torque in 3 steps process from center outward
Thermostat housing - 250 in. lbs.
Timing cover - 250 in. lbs.
Oil pan bolts - 105 in. lbs.
Crank bolt - 129 ft. lbs. use antiseize on new crank bolt

 

[TheMoparConnection]

that about right 10hp

 

[mopar_mudder]

you must pull the heads and you must also remove the oil pan. We have done many and its worth it if you plan on doing the rest of the mopar stuff..meaning mopar long tube w/o cats and mopar PCM..that PCM is calibrated for no cats and that comp cam..

I am sure you can do it with out pulling the heads as Boomer said, the lifter should stick up in the bores enough. I know he has done a bunch also. Thanks for the input.

After doing some more looking it apears the only thing different from the stock to the Comp Coupe cam is the Lobe Seperation Angle. I was expecting more lift or a difference in duration or something......:dontknow:

 

[Blakewilder]

I dunno, I did it cuz the motor was torna part anyways.....