Failure of Lehman Bros.

[Cudajon]

Dude whatever your drinkin, send me some just take I-35 north....

but seriously, people wonder why the "conservatives" claim the patriotism banter... its because Democrats are too busy bashing this f'in thing into the ground, telling us how we aren't doing enough, how the US is mean, how the US is greedy....

I saw a great bumper sticker today on an old man's beat up Oldsmobile

if you don't love it, leave it

the US is easier to break up with than a wife, so instead of trying to make the US into what YOU want, just get a divorce, you can't change a woman, can ya?

 

[iraqivet01]

AIG no better than a bookie with no money to back up this bets. Well they lost the bet on the housing situation, and now it's time to pay up, they didn't have the money.

So all that extra money people have been paying toward PMI, they weren't putting it away and saving it. They just considered it a sure bet that home value would go up, and people would be able to make their house payments.

That my understanding about the it anyways.

 

[01VIPERGTS/ACR]

You make a very good point Jake. No longer are we looked at as the world leader. We have become the laughing stock of international circles. I have confidence that we will rise again, and I think that process can start as soon as our administration changes. We are a great country we just need to start acting like one.

How can that happen when this entire country is being purchased by former?recent?third world countries?They come here....purchase OUR land...OUR economy and bring with them the ways of THERE land.This country is being made into what ALL the "other than american" countries are now IMO.If there country is so good than why are they all flocking here to change this one?:dontknow:

 

[Prof]

We have to find our way back...we can...but it will take some suffering on the part of everyone of us...we will be going on a diet very soon.

 

[iraqivet01]

How can that happen when this entire country is being purchased by former?recent?third world countries?They come here....purchase OUR land...OUR economy and bring with them the ways of THERE land.This country is being made into what ALL the "other than american" countries are now IMO.If there country is so good than why are they all flocking here to change this one?:dontknow:

The Japanesse did the samething in the early 90's. When the Yen took a diver, they sold everything at rock bottom prices.

 

[01VIPERGTS/ACR]

We have to find our way back...we can...but it will take some suffering on the part of everyone of us...we will be going on a diet very soon.

I agree with you Roy 100%.But as long as our government sells this country out...we (as americans born an bred) are screwed.:dontknow:

 

[Manic]

We have to find our way back...we can...but it will take some suffering on the part of everyone of us...we will be going on a diet very soon.

Japan, Australia and Canada all took some painful steps.

Australia and Canda inacted the GST. Pretty much a straight tax for most goods and services. This pretty much demolished the Conservative Party that had a majority at the time into 3 seats in the back of Parliment. An exaggeration but definately hurt their party.

What ever is done to clear up this mess it won't be easy on anyone.

Wil

 

[Prof]

We must all suffer together, but what we need now is leadership that is willing to disregard the power-brokers, make the tough decisions that will yield results long term and keep companies and families from going under short term. That means all of us will have to experience pain...but that is the way out, we have done it before. If you and I do not suffer some sever pain in the next six months...we will go through this again and again...I prefer to take the medicine now...get the surgery over and move on.

 

[TheSickness]

I like broad sweeping statements that encompass everything......... Blatant republican verbal bashing with very little meat to the argument. After the awesome achievements started with the Absurdly constructed " Contract with America " and many other steaming piles of Horse Shit trying to be force spoon fed as something that means something...I give you 8 yrs of mental retardation, economic disaster, 9 trillion dollars debt, failed foreign policy, housing collapse...Idealogical extermination in Iraq, No WMDs and a Larry Craig Gloryhole adventure that went wrong...I could go on forever but any idiot that is dumb enough to believe that Bush will ever be mentioned in a good light in history is beyond help of any kind.

I keep forgetting all those Iraqis that attacked us on 9/11....sorry how could I I blame myself I voted for him 2 times...No difference in choice now either.By his own admissions he thinks Bush has done a great job...That for me is a deal breaker.

 

[Prof]

You make some salient points.

The "9-11 attribution" possibly the most significant.

You are my brother...I may regret ever having said that

 

[OCBob]

It's weird, but I haven't seen the question this go around in the campaigns. Maybe I just missed it. You know the question I'm talking about.

"Are you better off now than you were 8 years ago?"

 

[Prof]

It was blissful eight years ago from my perspective.

Then the shit hit the fan, and the fan has not stopped throwing ugly stuff...

Two other questions and this will be a really tough sell:

Is it possible to agree, no matter what the outcome of the election, that the person who is President on January 21 is the blame line, good or bad? Is it possible then to focus on what we do, rather than who got us here?

 

[iraqivet01]

I'm making more money then I did 8 years ago, but I was just starting this new career at that time.

The way they are using the Reserves hasn't changed the last 12 years. Were still going out the door at a pretty constant rate. Bosnia and Kosovo kept us busy before GWOT came into play.

 

[Annu Kumar]

Prof your were blaming Bush right? Here:

Bill Clinton for allowing the Glass-Steagall Act to be repealed without adding new regulation. It eliminated the legal divide between investment banks and depository banks without realizing that this would require a total overhaul of regulation.

- George W. Bush and his dad, I'd say, get the least blame of any of these presidents for this crisis. I. Make the case. I don't see it. I think it would have been lessened if he had kept government deficits lower and had seen the brewing housing bubble and had smarter regulation to avoid it. But this bubble was many decades in the making.

- Alan Greenspan, for keeping interest rates too low and not understanding that asset bubbles can be as dangerous as inflation.

- France and Germany and Japan, for having stupid government rules that restrict economic growth and have forced the U.S. to carry the global weight of financial innovation and economic growth. Simply put, France and Germany and Japan weren't doing enough financially exciting things to attract global investors. So, those investors flooded into the U.S. -- the only show on the globe -- and that helped fuel the housing bubble.

- Almost every country on earth. For similarly having stupid economic policies that prevent them from growing and attracting smart investment, further funneling the world's investments towards the U.S., where they can create a bubble.

- China for keeping its currency pegged to the dollar, which forces them to keep buying U.S. treasury bills -- artificially lowering interest rates and fueling the housing bubble.

- Wall Street investment banks for being too trustful of their risk management software that told them the risks they were taking were, well, manageable. Even the people who wrote the software would have told them they were being too trustful. The risks are greater than you think.

- Everyone in Congress for the last 70 years, for allowing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to continue as a highly risky walking, talking moral hazard: a company built on the model of giving profits to shareholders while forcing the U.S. government to bear the risk. Outrageous.

 

[OCBob]

The more I read about the AIG deal the more concerned I find myself.

Instead of taking the billions and giving them to the company, why not just make sure that customers that are at risk of losing due to the mismanagement are covered? To hell with the company and to hell with the stockholders.

I see no difference in somebody taking out a bad loan and someone that made a bad investment. Why should the rest of the citizens have to bear either load?

The next thing that needs to be done is a thorough but quick investigation. I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that there are folks that committed criminal acts inside the company during the lead up to this. It's not like they woke up one morning and realized they were deep in the shit, I don't buy that.

I'm also very concerned with the precedent that this sets. The fed now has an 80% stake in AIG. Doesn't this bother anyone? Folks talk about being worried about Obama and Socialism, now who's the socialist?

As an economic system, socialism is often characterized by state, worker, or community ownership of the means of production.

 

[Annu Kumar]

The more I read about the AIG deal the more concerned I find myself.

Instead of taking the billions and giving them to the company, why not just make sure that customers that are at risk of losing due to the mismanagement are covered? To hell with the company and to hell with the stockholders.

I see no difference in somebody taking out a bad loan and someone that made a bad investment. Why should the rest of the citizens have to bear either load?

The next thing that needs to be done is a thorough but quick investigation. I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that there are folks that committed criminal acts inside the company during the lead up to this. It's not like they woke up one morning and realized they were deep in the shit, I don't buy that.

I'm also very concerned with the precedent that this sets. The fed now has an 80% stake in AIG. Doesn't this bother anyone? Folks talk about being worried about Obama and Socialism, now who's the socialist?

As an economic system, socialism is often characterized by state, worker, or community ownership of the means of production.

Social Capitalism

 

[Prof]

Annu, I hold the person accountable that is in charge at the time of the success or failure. Using your hypothesis I could debate with you from the stand point that the British are to blame because they did not dedicate sufficient troops to quell the uprising in the colonies.

On January 20th, there will be a new accountability. The leader either identifies and solves possible problems or they are part of the problem. That is the way I ran my companies, no board member ever heard me say well if the past CEO had...or if he had not...

You are young and may not understand. Discussing who is at fault is fruitless, the search for the guilty becomes self defeating.

Its easy...if it happens on your watch you are accountable. Take the actions necessary to safe guard the company, organization or nation. Be willing to lean on your sword to correct the situation if necessary...it is your job when you are at the top.

 

[OCBob]

Annu, I have to agree with Roy. If your predecessor did something that can have detrimental effects, it is your responsibility to make the necessary changes. You can't just let it go and then say it was their fault. Yes maybe the root of it was something that someone else did, but you must step up and counteract that. The buck has to stop somewhere, and in this country it stops at the desk of the president, for good or for bad. And every single one of them throughout history is more than willing to take credit for everything good that happens when they are in office but try to put the blame somewhere else for the bad stuff.

 

[Wifey]

Annu, I have to agree with Roy. If your predecessor did something that can have detrimental effects, it is your responsibility to make the necessary changes. You can't just let it go and then say it was their fault. Yes maybe the root of it was something that someone else did, but you must step up and counteract that. The buck has to stop somewhere, and in this country it stops at the desk of the president, for good or for bad. And every single one of them throughout history is more than willing to take credit for everything good that happens when they are in office but try to put the blame somewhere else for the bad stuff.

Now that right there is funny, cuz we haven't had a president for 8 years now -

 

[Black1]

Now that right there is funny, cuz we haven't had a president for 8 years now -

You'll have to go back further than that, I'm afraid.