FRIENDLY DEBATE...

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Blakewilder

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1fast and I are having a FRIENDLY debate that I think will turn alot of heads. Im a little nervous about starting this thread but I HOPE that we can keep it friendly.

Ok heres the debate... STOCK vs STOCK I say that a Paxton S/C'd vehicle will beat a ROE TSTM Equipped truck.

Now I know that there is a million ways that we can skew the numbers so thats why I say STOCK to STOCK as in just a dyno tune and water meth since the Roe comes with water meth.

Maybe the resident experts can help out here.

PLEASE lets keep it friendly debate.
 
ok, friendly debate...

The TSTM makes gobs of tq at low RPM, so it will get off the line faster, as tq is what gets you moving.....Now once it is moving, the tq curve of the paxton will start to really show its true colors. We are talking about 2 differant animals, so its hard to compare them equally.

I would say something like a 1/8 run, the TSTM would show its colors, but in the 1/4 I think the paxton would come back. Another downside with the TSTM is its non-intercooled, where the paxton can get the cold charge (on top of the water-meth) which is a big advantage.

My humble opinion...not starting any wars :D
 
The other factor is....are you running on stock rubber or shaved calipers and slicks. The TMTS on stock rubber will prolly sit and spin stock rubber whereas the Paxton truck's torque will come on later and be easier to launch. :dontknow:

Running slicks the TMTS should pull hard on the Paxton truck out of the hole.

Not that I have any experience with either, cause I don't.
 
Well I didn't see him say 13's, think he is smarter then that. It all comes down to driver really. I think the ROE has the possibility to be quicker if it has a good enough driver to get it to hook up. The Paxton is going to be a much more user friendly set-up to get good ET out of the box.

On a side note it was said that the paxton worked very well for road racing because it would not give full boost out of the corner. I wonder if the TPTS would be a real animal to try and drive of a corner at high speed. Ya can't always go straight ya know :D

Persoanly if I did it I would go TPTS just cause I think it look cleaner and like the idea.
 
Where did I say that they can ONLY run 13's???? I said that a STOCK Paxton would beat a STOCK TSTM....So far you have told me what they do on a Viper, and what they would do if you ran the same amount of boost.

Thats NOT the debate...I simply said that If you went to Roe and bought their TSTM kit and had it installed just like NBT or Prof, and I went to DC or Boomer and got a Paxton kit and a dyno tune with meth....I believe that the truck with the Paxton would win....Just my opinion.
 
1Fast400 said:
Blake is attempting to say that TPTS can only run 13's, which is absurd. NBT has likely never driven anything with 600lb's of tq at 2800 rpm's.

Red007 has ran 12.20 correct? Red had .50 advantage in the first 60' over NBT's run. In the 8th, that's going to be .7-.80 of an advantage, all things being equal. NBT runs 8.83 in the 1/8th to Red's 7.91, which is .90.

Now that is all I personally need to see. NBT was on a street tire where he was losing traction at every shift. Even with that, he was staying within the loss of the 60'. Meaning even spinning the tires at every shift, he was losing the amount of ET he should have, based off the 60'.

If NBT ever hooks that thing up, he'll be flying. Making up a .1 in the first 60' will be .30 by end of the 1/4. ET's are made in the first 100' of the track.

It should be pointed out that NBT is running a meager 5lbs of boost vs the paxtons that are running 8 out of the box.
Click to expand...

You forgot to take into consideration a 'stock' TSTM comes water / methanol injection (from what Ive been told), the 12.2 was without water/meth...

Since then, I have been tuned for water/methanol...I will let you know how I do when I go to the track again...

But needless, its going to be very difficult to compare 2 completely different systems, with completely different parts out of the box.

-Red
 
Blakewilder said:
Where did I say that they can ONLY run 13's???? I said that a STOCK Paxton would beat a STOCK TSTM....So far you have told me what they do on a Viper, and what they would do if you ran the same amount of boost.

Thats NOT the debate...I simply said that If you went to Roe and bought their TSTM kit and had it installed just like NBT or Prof, and I went to DC or Boomer and got a Paxton kit and a dyno tune with meth....I believe that the truck with the Paxton would win....Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

The Paxton's are a bit higher on peak HP I believe aren't they. I suppose alot of that comes down to how agressive of a tune you want to go with.

If they both had the exact same peak HP the TSTM should be quicker do to the hp and torque coming on sooner. This is all asuming that you put slicks on both so traciton is not a concern. It is just like the Dyno debate, higher dyno number don't mean a faster quarter time.

Hey how about this. Strap both down to a dyno that does simulated 1/4's. Traction should be no issue since you can crank the straps down and get bite on the rollers.

Either way they are both bad ass cool and I will take eigher if someone wants to donate it to my cause........:dontknow:
 
Roe has better low end torque...spins sooner. Paxton has torque developing around 3000 rpm and higher...get off the line without spinning then hit the boost.

There was a thread around here recently that talked about the Roe's torque being higher down lower in the powerband and possibility of wheelspin off the line.
 
I quoted the times that were the ONLY exmaples...I never said "that was all they could do" that wouldnt make sense.

The debate is what the thread title says....
Sorry for the confusion.....although I dont think you were confused, just squirming a little.

So what is it?? Stock to Stock???

I think that due to traction loss from the low end torque of the TSTM the Paxton equipped truck will win, however, Id be curious to see how that changed with shaved calipers and some slicks....Id venture to say that the outcome would be very different.
 
1Fast400 said:
I think we should just close this and revisit it in 3 months when there are more than 5 trucks out there.
Click to expand...

Yea then Prof can put the studed tires on his truck and go run the 1/4 on the ice. I would think about 300 carbide studs per tire would get some hook. Don't worry about stopping, you will be too busy tryin to figure out which way you will spin out and if you want to watch or just lay down in the seat and wait it out.

Ya know we do have ice racing here(circle track) wonder if any one has thought of drags on the ice, they do it with snowmobiles (1000') :idea:
 
They do ice racing at one of the lakes west of denver in the mountains. I've done it with my '72 Blazer on street tires (BFG Mud Terrains)...cant go more then 10 mph tops but lots of fun trying.
 
Stock for stock, with equal boost and the same driver ability (no such thing)? I would be inclined to place a SMALL bet on the Roe but....

With the above said, the Paxton or the Roe will not decide the race, it is the driver that will be the deciding factor. Keep in mind you have EVERYTHING STOCK based on your post, which makes it harder to drive the truck. Stock tires, shifter, those two things alone with a lot of torque in a race environment makes these trucks hard to drive. As nice as our trucks were out of the wrapper they do not compare to a real track runner in terms of drivabily at the track, and it should not, they are also intended to be on the street. Because of this the driver has a lot to do with 13.2 vs 12.7. This is why it is all about the driver if you want to compare a SC truck with EVERYTHING else stock.

Put on slicks, a quick positive responding shifter and a bright shift light so it shows up in your line of view, the driver becomes less of a factor and it is easier to say what SC has the slight advantage. Or better yet run a couple QCs with everything stock and auto trannys.

As for opinions, I like the top mount look better. I just think a SC (or blower for us old guys) looks better stacked up on the top of the engine. Although I do not like the black, the Paxton wins in the bling category. But I will be coating mine red (well at least I hope to) :)

Some other thoughts on the subject
1. I think top mounts are a better desgin, if not they would not be used in real drag cars. (I know, almost to obviously to say)
2. The side mount Paxton design I think was developed for two reasons
-Easier to install.
-For those cars with limited space, no hood changed needed.


OK I think I explained my view in a friendly manor.
 
Last edited:
Blakewilder said:
1fast and I are having a FRIENDLY debate that I think will turn alot of heads. Im a little nervous about starting this thread but I HOPE that we can keep it friendly.

Ok heres the debate... STOCK vs STOCK I say that a Paxton S/C'd vehicle will beat a ROE TSTM Equipped truck.

Now I know that there is a million ways that we can skew the numbers so thats why I say STOCK to STOCK as in just a dyno tune and water meth since the Roe comes with water meth.

Maybe the resident experts can help out here.

PLEASE lets keep it friendly debate.
Click to expand...
Based on your question at the present time I will have to say the Paxton.
 
Dave T(BADVENM) said:
You do get a better BANG for the buck with the STS.
Click to expand...

LMFAO :D

Stock for stock, or equal mods to equal mods, they are both close.....someone made a good point about the driver, and those with the Roe have very little seat time....true to point, the next 6 months will tell a lot, but from everything I have heard, both the Roe and Paxton are excellent options....
 
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