Hard to Shift...1st question, Place your bets!

[RAMviperIFFIC]

I put over 1,500 miles on my Centerforce Clutch, stock flywheel and Viper master & Slave......and about a week ago, it started shifting difficult. It has gotten worse over the past week. In one day, I went from being able to engage a gear while not moving to having to shut the truck off to get it into gear.

MY CLUTCH IS NOT DISENGAGING. I have read more threads than I know what to do with about this topic. I spoke with Gary (Boomer) on Saturday and followed his bleeding procedure to the "T". Bench bleeding the master cylinder was a fun first time experience.

Looking into the bell housing where the slave lines exit and using a pen light, I can see the pressure plate fingers moving as soon as the clutch pedal is pressed.

QUESTION: IF A SPACER IS NOT BEHIND MY SLAVE, WOULD THE THROWOUT BEARING BE CONTACTING THE FINGERS WHEN THE CLUTCH IS NOT DEPRESSED? DOES PUTTING THE SPACER BEHIND THE SLAVE ADD SOME "PRELOAD" TO THE PRESSURE PLATE FINGERS?

 

[RAMviperIFFIC]

Why the clutch doesn't disengage?

We have come up with two probable possiblities;

1) The centerforce clutch disk is warped(dish shaped or wavy)

2) The spacer was not put in behind the slave (Gary thinks this may be a possiblity, as others who have experienced shifting problems after some miles where put on the set up without the spacer.)

 

[RedSrt007]

3 possabilites....

Alignment issues (Spacers)

Air in system

bad pressure plate

 

[RAMviperIFFIC]

The NEXT step....

After fully exhausting all possiblities outside of the transmission and bell housing area, my tranny is being removed. My good friend (who also owns the repair shop working on pulling the tranny out) should have the tranny out well before noon tomorrow.

Place your bets on what you think they will find:

1) Missing Spacer

2) Warped Clutch Disc

3) Messed up pressure plate

4) Wiped out Flywheel

5) Faulty Viper Slave

6) Ruined transmission input shaft

What esle is there?:dontknow:

 

[RAMviperIFFIC]

Howdy Member #1....

3 possabilites....

Alignment issues (Spacers)

Air in system

bad pressure plate

We have ruled out air in the system. With properly bench bleeding the system (actually just the master cylinder) when the clutch line is disconected from the slave, the clutch pedal is rock solid, no free play what so ever. We also jacked up the rear and bled 1/2 gallon of fluid through the system. I think my fluid is flushed now!

 

[Prof]

You will find no spacer between the throw out bearing and the transmission.

That's my bet.

 

[Wifey]

My personal mechanic agrees with Roy He has seen reference of 2 spacers equalling 1/8" each totally 1/4". Maybe just one (or both) was left out

 

[HOT RAM]

You will find no spacer between the throw out bearing and the transmission.

That's my bet.

That's my guess ,too.

 

[Wifey]

Giv'in Red a rest

Yes you need shims for the slave cylinder, it is .25" on the slave. Some have used washers, carrier/differential shims...but I prefer the machined shim from one of our vendors. (make sure you order 2 of the 1/8..some have gotten away with just an 1/8, but 1/2 seems to be working better).( i think he meant 1/4)

Main thing is to bleed these trucks...I can emphasize more! Bleed bleed and bleed....these trucks are very picky when it comes to air in the line.

-Red

 

[mauiSRT/10]

Missing spacer.


patrick

 

[Marc T]

Verdict Please??:dontknow:

 

[RAMviperIFFIC]

And behind door #1.......It is the...

Verdict Please??:dontknow:

Spacer is installed correctly. Problem is with the clutch disc / pressure plate! I will be measuring the disc for run out tonight.

 

[Prof]

I'm surprised, and wrong again...this is getting habit forming!

 

[RedSrt007]

being the test mule for the centerforce kit on the truck, the pressure plate was one of the areas that gave us SLIGHT issues ....should be a smooth fix

take care !!

-Red

 

[RAMviperIFFIC]

Some inspection.....

I will post pics tomorrow. But here is the rundown;

Flywheel: Hot spots all over the place, looks like a bruised mellon! But surface is really smooth.

Pressure Plate: Fingers look fine. The actual surface for making contact on the clutch disc is grooved something fierce! The picture will show how bad it looks......bad metal?

Disc: Disc appears to be okay, but two of the metal "fingers" connecting the inner portion of the clutch with the outer portion are discolored blue. This is most likely caused from overheating of the clutch disc. I figure the disc is warped bad enough so it won't disengage completey....but it doesn't look warped to my "laser calibrated eye."???

 

[RAMviperIFFIC]

and the ROOT CAUSE is:

approximately two weeks ago, it all started to go bad. I was at my friends stereo shop (he owns a bad azz Z06, 2007). I start up my vehicle and while it is in first gear, with the clutch pedal fully depressed....I tach it up to redline for a brief moment. Seconds later, after I pull it back in to neutral and idle it back down....I smell lots of burning clutch! Wierd...I thought. I then pull out of his parking lot and attempt to race away, the 1-2 shift is extremely difficult. I drive home easy. For the next week, the truck shifts fine when not pushing to hard (revs under 4,500 rpm), but it seems like when I try and rev it out in any gear, it comes out hard and goes into the next hard. This progressively gets worse at an exponential rate. Last Friday, when sitting at an idle, I can shift between 1st and reverse, with way too much required effort. The next day (saturday), I go out for a 40 mile drive and 20 miles into it, the clutch completely stops disengaging. I can not put it into gear when I am stopped. Rev matching was required to shift at a very low RPM (under 2,000) and life is not fun! (life in the truck anyway.)



continued on next post......

 

[RAMviperIFFIC]

call me a post whore,

....but I hate reading long posts.....so I am shortening it up.


I feel the root cause was an improperly bled clutch circuit. Ever since I got my truck back from the dealer (1-1/2 months ago), It has not shifted perfectly from 1st to reverse...it actually got worse over time, but it was gradual enough that I did not think much of it at the time.

With air in the clutch circuit, the clutch was not "fully" disengaging, put that together with the centerforce centrifugal clamping action and 6,000 rpm while sitting still......the pressure plate clamped down on the clutch just enough to burn it (as I smelled!). This most likely warped the clutch disc a little bit.

Then over time, becuase it wasn't fully disengaging and it was warped, it became more warped at an exponential rate and wala.....no more disengaging.:dontknow:

Does this sound realistic to you all?

 

[RAMviperIFFIC]

What kind of issues?

being the test mule for the centerforce kit on the truck, the pressure plate was one of the areas that gave us SLIGHT issues ....should be a smooth fix

take care !!

-Red

What kind of issues did you experience?

thank you,

Jon

 

[MYTRAM]

Clutch/flywheel are shot? Was new clutch broken in properly? It seems to be a pretty good idea if not a neccesity to give atleast a good 500mi. break-in before stomping it. Didn't you take it to drags very soon after engine and clutch replace?

 

[RAMviperIFFIC]

yes....I didn't stomp on it during break in

I put well over 500 miles on before going to the strip. And it worked great for another 700 or so miles after my trip to the strip. I have spoken with Roger W from Centerforce (tech help) and I am sending him pictures of the center clutch hub and the pressure plate. My technician and I both feel that the pressure plate was/is somehow not working properly when the clutch pedal is depressed. Stay tuned...........

Good news is that I have a new centerforce clutch installed and it works perfectly again.

I will post pics this weekend of the components and the wear which is visible after 1,500 miles.