Heads and cam 04 10 (Help quick)

OSO

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One of the local guys (red truck in my sig) that does not get on the forum is getting ported and polished heads and a cam problem is he doesn't know what cam guy just said it was a "full race cam". Trying to see what off the shelf cams are out there he should really be looking at . I doubt they are doing anything other than port and polish on the heads so the cam would have to work with the factory valve train.

His fault for not looking into it more just figured you guys might be abel to help him out before this goes bad. Not sure that that shop has a whole lot of viper experience.
 
bigike said:
Roberto is getting fast? :)
Yeah he didn't like the the Hemi pulling away on him on the freeway :D



bigike said:
Put the race cam in it and see what happens!

Make sure its got valve springs and pushrods.
Your not helping, you in town yet.
 
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He better get the specs on that cam or he is asking for big trouble. Especially if that shop has no experience with Viper engines. ;)

He might get lucky and everything work fine, but then again it may not. Not a gamble I would take.
 
ViperTruck2933 said:
He better get the specs on that cam or he is asking for big trouble. Especially if that shop has no experience with Viper engines. ;)

He might get lucky and everything work fine, but then again it may not. Not a gamble I would take.
Im with you on that one, i told him with that kind of info these guys might just pull a plug wire and go here that lope its a full race cam:D
 
"Full Race Cam"- I haven't heard that term in 30 years or so. It is WIDE open to interpretation and not at all useful.

Agreed, get some specs on that cam, esp. lift.
Hopefully, they will match the cam to the heads (as far as mechanical clearance goes, ie. coil bind) and choose one that will work well with the head mods they have done (from a performance standpoint). Valve to piston clearance also comes into play eventually. I have no idea what other work has been done.
Specs somewhere close to the Viper Coupe Cam works well in a heavy truck.

Rotten
 
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rottenronnie said:
"Full Race Cam"- I haven't heard that term for 30 years or so. It is WIDE open to interpretation and not at all helpful.

Agreed, get some specs on that cam, esp. lift.
Hopefully, they will match the cam to the heads (as far as mechanical clearance goes) and choose one that will work well with the head mods they have done (from a performance standpoint).
Specs somewhere close to the Viper Coupe Cam works well in a heavy truck.

Rotten
I am betting the heads will be mostly stock just the port and polish i was wondering whats the common off the shelf cams were that would work with the stock heads. He basically went in and asked what would it take to get that heavy lope at idle so i wonder if there just going to try and stick the biggest lift cam with the most separation they can find in there.
 
i think most off the shelf cams (i.e. all comp cam off the shelf cams require different springs) except the mopar performance cam, require valve train modification.
 
OSO said:
I am betting the heads will be mostly stock just the port and polish i was wondering whats the common off the shelf cams were that would work with the stock heads. He basically went in and asked what would it take to get that heavy lope at idle so i wonder if there just going to try and stick the biggest lift cam with the most separation they can find in there.

Again, either the Viper Coupe Cam (or the Mopar Cam, as mentioned above) make a nice choice. I went with a billet roller based on the Coupe cam but changed specs. here and there to work well with the Strikers. Mine has a lope at idle (I wouldn't call it heavy) but I am also running an auto and didn't want a cam that kicked the shit out of low-end torque.

The LIFTERS on these engines tame the cam a bit around idle so to get a big lope at idle, the cam will need to be even bigger than what would normally produce a big lope, with a more conventional lifter design. Finding more conventional lifters for these engines is a real problem, as they don't seem to exist.

A big lopey cam without an increase in your static compression ratio by cutting the heads and/or the block, and/or a piston swap, WILL lower the operating (dynamic) compression and these engines respond well to MORE compression, not less.

A few guys on this Forum have changed cams in their trucks and maybe they will also give you some pros and cons....

THE CAM SHOULD MATCH THE FLOW CAPABILITIES OF THE HEADS. I mean, what is the point of a big idle if you lose usable power in the end???

Again, I don't know what has been done to this engine, what is going to be done, if you care about driveability or what your final goal is....
I went with a setup that gives me enough power to pound on the stock Viper cars at the track (well prior to the Gen IVs anyway :)), and even gained some gas mileage! It sure isn't an all-out power build by any stretch, but it is what I wanted.

Tell your engine builder what YOU want to have in the end and hopefully you will hit your target...

Rotten
 
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rottenronnie said:
.........................THE CAM SHOULD MATCH THE FLOW CAPABILITIES OF THE HEADS. I mean, what is the point of a big idle if you lose usable power in the end???

Rotten
IMHO this is the most critical thing to remember. I had a substantially more aggressive cam than the "708" or either one of Comp Cams' off the shelf cams. My heads were fully ported and port matched to the headers and ported intake. CR was bumped up to a little over 10:1 also.

In the end the geometry of the valve train on the heads was very different than OEM. I actually ended going with with non-standard beehive springs, T&D rockers, hardened pushrods.

It had a nice lopy idle.
 
I want so bad to do a heads and cam upgrade.. But this is the very thing that scares me.
 
ill let you know next week anty ,,:D ,,greasie hands as i type,,i went by ARD again today to talk to them about tuning ,,,roberts truck is there..guy said its going to take him 3 weeks to do his truck ,,mostly head work time !!
 
Venom Power said:
I want so bad to do a heads and cam upgrade.. But this is the very thing that scares me.

I.M.H.O. there is a certain amount (considerable?) of hype when dealing with Viper engines. It might be easy for me to say, because I have been ripping things apart for over 40 years. There are some unique features to the Viper engines and they are a mix of conventional and exotic engine building philosophies but in the end-

THEY ARE STILL JUST ENGINES !!

I don't know where you are at as far as engine building experience goes, but the above opinion might help...

Rotten
 
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Ironhead said:
ill let you know next week anty ,,:D ,,greasie hands as i type,,i went by ARD again today to talk to them about tuning ,,,roberts truck is there..guy said its going to take him 3 weeks to do his truck ,,mostly head work time !!
DId you get any info on the heads and cam from the guy Robert didnt have a clue what he paid for? But 3 weeks he must be doing more than port and polish.
 
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rottenronnie said:
I.M.H.O. there is a certain amount (considerable?) of hype when dealing with Viper engines. It might be easy for me to say, because I have been ripping things apart for over 40 years. There are some unique features to the Viper engines and they are a mix of conventional and exotic engine building philosophies but in the end-

THEY ARE JUST ENGINES !!

I don't know where you are at as far as engine building experience goes but the above opinion might help...

Rotten

When it comes to this particular engine my experience is to leave it to professionals. I will not try to do anything major to it myself. I was extremely nervous just removing and installing the valve covers, during which time plug wires #7 and #9 were damaged despite how careful and cautious I was. I also wouldn't make a decision of what cam I would need unless I were 175% sure that I was at least 150% sure that I would have 0% failure. And that's my way of thinking 100% of the time.
 
Venom Power said:
When it comes to this particular engine my experience is to leave it to professionals. I will not try to do anything major to it myself. I also wouldn't make a decision of what cam I would need unless I were 175% sure that I was at least 150% sure that I would have 0% failure. And that's my way of thinking 100% of the time.
To bad it only works 10% of the time.:D
 

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