Health Care may Kill this Country

[Prof]

I agree that while health care is a right, it is not something that should be free. I also believe that we should deal with our citizens first and if people are illegal, that just negates the right to have benefits before our residents.

If you are here illegally, then you must leave and the company that employs you needs to be prosecuted. On the other side of the equation, we need to be sure that those that want to work here as non-residents are managed and that that work force is provided for as long as they comply with the law. Then we need to be sure that our immigration laws are realistic and manageable...

There are no simple solutions.

 

[Begood]

I agree that while health care is a right, it is not something that should be free. I also believe that we should deal with our citizens first and if people are illegal, that just negates the right to have benefits before our residents.

If you are here illegally, then you must leave and the company that employs you needs to be prosecuted. On the other side of the equation, we need to be sure that those that want to work here as non-residents are managed and that that work force is provided for as long as they comply with the law. Then we need to be sure that our immigration laws are realistic and manageable...

There are no simple solutions.

I totally agree with you Roy!

Bill.

 

[Silverback]

I totally agree with you Roy!

Bill.

Don't do that Bill, it will just go to his head.

 

[SilvrSRT10]

If you are here illegally, then you must leave and the company that employs you needs to be prosecuted.

I for a short time had a couple of Latino gentlemen working for me. They provided proper documentation for what was required at the time. My question is, How extensive should background checks need to be in order for a company not to get prosecuted if an illegal is found to be working there? Anything you require of them they seem to be able to produce.

 

[Bone]

I agree that while health care is a right, it is not something that should be free. I also believe that we should deal with our citizens first and if people are illegal, that just negates the right to have benefits before our residents.

If you are here illegally, then you must leave and the company that employs you needs to be prosecuted. On the other side of the equation, we need to be sure that those that want to work here as non-residents are managed and that that work force is provided for as long as they comply with the law. Then we need to be sure that our immigration laws are realistic and manageable...

There are no simple solutions.

My wife was here illegally for awhile, due to INS paperwork buffoonery/redtape, and she was covered by Tri-care under the DoD. So I should have sent her back to her country, pregnant, without coverage, and prosecuted the DoD?

 

[Scrambler1]

Well said Joe!

As stated in your post about bad knees, I hope that wheel chair accident in Macon did not aggravate anything

No worries Ernie, I used the good leg as the brake!:burnout:

 

[Prof]

It's a great question, but if we work on it seriously, I think it can be resolved.

While our population is not predisposed to a national ID card...I bet we could move a lot closer in providing documentation that we currently do with the I-9 criteria.

Let's put the requirement on the states. Not on the employers.

 

[Prof]

Mistakes are issues that need to be handled on an individual basis Bone. The INS needs a huge overhaul as do many of our institutions.

 

[Begood]

I for a short time had a couple of Latino gentlemen working for me. They provided proper documentation for what was required at the time. My question is, How extensive should background checks need to be in order for a company not to get prosecuted if an illegal is found to be working there? Anything you require of them they seem to be able to produce.

How about ask the employee to give you a driver license and SS#. Then contact Social Security to see if their info matches yours?

Bill.

 

[Bone]

So privatize, not socialize our institutions for a huge overhaul, I couldn't agree with you more Roy.

 

[OCBob]

Seems that this subject has morphed into a discussion about immigration. Which isn't unusual, everything is interconnected. Nearly every decision that the government makes effects other things, oftentimes it is completely unexpected.

I want to put another example out there as Bone did. My wife and her family are from Laos. They came here from a refugee camp in Thailand, where my wife was born, she was under a year old when they came.

Anyway, my father-in-law gets SS payments. He also gets health care. He has never worked while in the states, though my mother-in-law has from day one.

Now, I am sure there are many that will be upset that he is collecting SS, which he never paid into. People will be upset that he is receiving health care paid for from our taxes. People will say that he is not entitled to any of this.

But here is the rub. While in Laos, he risked his own life as well as the lives of his family in support of this country and our war. Helping the Americans was a very serious and dangerous thing to do, and took real balls if you ask me.

The only reason I pointed this out is that there are very few things in life that are as simple as they seem at first glance. There are many nuances, just as Bone pointed out.

I personally think one of the major problems in this country is being closed minded. We must all be willing to learn new thing and try new ideas.

 

[Prof]

The government still has not proved that it can do anything well.

 

[SilvrSRT10]

How about ask the employee to give you a driver license and SS#. Then contact Social Security to see if their info matches yours?

Bill.

I think we did that (my father handled that). But if they assume the identity of an actual living person and they have a DL with matching name with their picture, what else can you do? Their documents matched but I strongly suspect that they were new to our country.:dontknow: It's a non issue for me now since I do all my own work.

 

[OCBob]

The government still has not proved that it can do anything well.

That's not quite true Roy. Look at our military. Look at our infrastructure (roads, water, bridges, etc.).

In fact I would say that our government can do everything well, if it can be made into a common goal. What kills everything is that no one can agree, so in order to get something passed, something must be given to the other side, nothing more than bribery IMO. So we end up with these huge bureaucracies which simply cannot function.

But it is time for reform, government reform. We must streamline the government. Of course that would never happen, what would we do with the 90% of federal employees that are unnecessary?

 

[Prof]

Seems that this subject has morphed into a discussion about immigration...
...I personally think one of the major problems in this country is being closed minded. We must all be willing to learn new thing and try new ideas.

Tolerance is one of the signs of a mature society. We are growing but we are really not that mature yet...

To your point, there is a huge Moung population here in the upper mid-west. They were some of our most loyal supporters during the Vietnam conflict...there were lots of Asian groups that fought valiantly for us, and were left to the whims of the communists when we fled southeast Asia. The Moungs and Montanyards were incredibly loyal fighters. I'm sure there were many tribal units in the surrounding countries too as OCBob has indicated.

 

[Black1]

Liquidate Social Security.... give a rebate for monies paid in for people under 60yo. Or, give a voucher where they can write it down on their taxes as a loss. I'm never ever going to see a single dime of my money I have paid to SS and Medicare anyway, so I will plan accordingly. Even if I did, it would be a slap in the face to how much I've paid in.... my Grandmother gets a SS check for $287/month. :dontknow: I know every dollar helps... but how the hell is someone supposed to survive off that anyway?

 

[Scrambler1]

That's not quite true Roy. Look at our military. Look at our infrastructure (roads, water, bridges, etc.).

In fact I would say that our government can do everything well, if it can be made into a common goal. What kills everything is that no one can agree, so in order to get something passed, something must be given to the other side, nothing more than bribery IMO. So we end up with these huge bureaucracies which simply cannot function.

But it is time for reform, government reform. We must streamline the government. Of course that would never happen, what would we do with the 90% of federal employees that are unnecessary?

I would argue that while the government is successful at getting those things accomplished/built they do not do a good job at maintaining them. Certainly not with anything that can remotely be described as efficiency. In this case the government certainly has the ability to change the system. I believe that what they lack is the ability to continue our current quality of care at any less total cost than we see in our current system.

 

[Silverback]

The Agriculture sector would collapse as well. Can you imagine Silverback having to pay 10 bucks for a banana :dontknow:

 

[Prof]

That's not quite true Roy. Look at our military. Look at our infrastructure (roads, water, bridges, etc.).

I think you need to think about what you said there Bob...our infrastructure is terrible and in near collapse. Bridges and dams across the country are in terrible shape, fresh water and sewer systems are decrepit and on the verge of failing in many of the older cities.

And while I am very proud of our military I don't think it can be bragged about because it is micro managed by politicians. Until we are willing to allow the military leaders to lead and make the decisions once the political decision to commit forces has been made, we will continue to be an ineffective military force.

 

[OCBob]

Yes Roy. Things are a mess right now. But our government built these things. Things that are truly amazing. That to me is proof that our government can do things, and do them well. Just not lately.

We need to demand these things again from our government. We have let our expectations of our government fall well below what they should be, in essence we have let them off the hook. And that's our fault, not theirs. If you tell a child that you expect at least C's on his report card, that's probably what you are going to get.

Why do we expect less of our government than our forefathers did? Just something to think about.