HIGH ENERGY DRAG RACING SPRINGS

[FerrariTruck]

http://www.santhuffshocks.com/springs.html

Just wondering if anyone has tried a set of drag racing springs on the trucks.


I remember buying a set of moroso 250"lb for my 70 monte carlo(3,600lbs) and dropped my 60ft a entire tenth. I was able to start pull the l/f tire off the ground with just this mod.

Stinker, I know the springs you came out with were more for a lower firm ride but what do you think about a set of these?

In order to find out what set we need, The weight on the front tires needs to be measured.. Any takers?

 

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

you know bud, i dont really know, i came from a background of roadracing, this striaght line stuff is really new to me.

but i do know we need to get the front up, and reduce the compression rate of the rear of the trucks, that way you get a ton more weight transfer,

that is the prob at the moment, most ofthe weight stays up front, the the rear will compress and then unload and recompress, all the way down the track.

in fact a good example is Nowwhats run, if you watch it closely it will hammer the rear suspension, but as he comes off the line it will unload due to spring pressure, an then it tries to load the springs again, the whole time loosing traction, the run probably with t he right set up could have netted a couple tenths quicker easily

 

[FerrariTruck]

you know bud, i dont really know, i came from a background of roadracing, this striaght line stuff is really new to me.

but i do know we need to get the front up, and reduce the compression rate of the rear of the trucks, that way you get a ton more weight transfer,

that is the prob at the moment, most ofthe weight stays up front, the the rear will compress and then unload and recompress, all the way down the track.

in fact a good example is Nowwhats run, if you watch it closely it will hammer the rear suspension, but as he comes off the line it will unload due to spring pressure, an then it tries to load the springs again, the whole time loosing traction, the run probably with t he right set up could have netted a couple tenths quicker easily

oh really, thats good news stinker i think I might be able to help. As we already talked you know i been racing chevys since i was 18. My 2 cars that i raced were mostly 12 high 11 street cars.




In short , correct drag springs + ajust shocks (qa1) will equal better weight transfer and more traction
Over on the chevelle site I learned a hell of alot on susp setup and how crucial it can be. Hell its no wonder brady was scratchin his head as to why the qa1's did nothing for him.

Well anyhow the theory goes that when your set to drag race you want the front end to rise to allow for weight transfer. You set your shocks accordinly. Now where these springs come into play is they are designed with more coils to store energy. So when you take off the springs start to uncoil more pronounced then reg springs. Hell some serious drag folks even losen or add bearings to the control arm mounts so that there is less resistance on front susp travel.

I hope this is starting to make sense.

 

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

oh really, thats good news stinker i think I might be able to help. As we already talked you know i been racing chevys since i was 18. My 2 cars that i raced were mostly 12 high 11 street cars.




In short , correct drag springs + ajust shocks (qa1) will equal better weight transfer and more traction
Over on the chevelle site I learned a hell of alot on susp setup and how crucial it can be. Hell its no wonder brady was scratchin his head as to why the qa1's did nothing for him.

Well anyhow the theory goes that when your set to drag race you want the front end to rise to allow for weight transfer. You set your shocks accordinly. Now where these springs come into play is they are designed with more coils to store energy. So when you take off the springs start to uncoil more pronounced then reg springs. Hell some serious drag folks even losen or add bearings to the control arm mounts so that there is less resistance on front susp travel.

I hope this is starting to make sense.

makes sense, on bikes for instance we had to play with the valving and the springs a ton, even changing them for different tracks,

but what we wanted to acheive is a spring valve combination that would compress enough to give us the traction, but not enough to where it wanted to rebound to quickly so that it unloaded and cause loss of traction.

one of the things I did with my truck was to remove a couple leaf springs in the rear to soften the rear and give it less compression and a ton less rebound. but even then it still had too much rebound,

now we could work with calvert, actually i will talk with travis tommorrow about it, i need to call them anyway, but will ask him about single leaves.

but again you are talking a set up that will mainly work at the track too, a set up like this would suck on the street, but to get the right trasnfer its really the only way

 

[Yellow venom]

makes sense, on bikes for instance we had to play with the valving and the springs a ton, even changing them for different tracks,

but what we wanted to acheive is a spring valve combination that would compress enough to give us the traction, but not enough to where it wanted to rebound to quickly so that it unloaded and cause loss of traction.

one of the things I did with my truck was to remove a couple leaf springs in the rear to soften the rear and give it less compression and a ton less rebound. but even then it still had too much rebound,

now we could work with calvert, actually i will talk with travis tommorrow about it, i need to call them anyway, but will ask him about single leaves.

but again you are talking a set up that will mainly work at the track too, a set up like this would suck on the street, but to get the right trasnfer its really the only way

Hey Stinker,
There is a shop up here called "Pro Stock Performance" and they sell a single spring for the rear on mopars called the "super stock spring" I e-mailed them and never got a response back about them for our truck!:dontknow: ,but I think the single rear should work good!:rock:

 

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

Ferrari is def on to something, not a hemi did a single spring on his, but we never really got any input on how it worked,

but i will talk with calvert tommorrow about it

this is ferraris deal, so i will forward any info his way:rock:

 

[FerrariTruck]

Sounds good stinker, I know its almost natural to think that since were spinning the tires in the back that is where the promblem must be. But really though I think are rear suspension is fine for now. there has been guys clicking off 1.6-1.7s so for now thats okay for the hp/weight ratio.(with caltracs)

But we still have a bunch of improvement in the front of the truck ot be done.

Once i get my truck back from the paint shop I will take it to get the front weighed and talk to Santhuff springs to see what they can come up with. For those who are worried about ride height the truck will be able to sit low still and still have a effective spring. Although the spring will be designed for drag racing, when you adjust the shocks back to "street 50/50" your handling will be returned back to normal to an extent. So dont worry about thinking you can only go in straight line from now on but the front end will have a lil more tendency to rise and stay up as your pushing down the track.

So far my best 60 in the truck on pirelli's @20psi has been 1.8 at my local track. If get a 1.75 on a stock tire or 1.7 lower on drag radials I think it will have been worth it. I would even try to get vid of my front end before and after to compare .


How many folks here would trade their handling for an improvement in the strip?

 

[FerrariTruck]

here are some vids of my truck pulling 1.81 60 right before ?I did my clutch. If you look closely you can see that it bounced coming off the line. Had it drag springs in there, the front susp would have continued to unload and rise pivoting the traction on the rear tires.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3WYPpmUfrU

 

[Carlwalski]

"Kind of" on topic but what causes the trucks to bounce, mine is still not satisfactory by any means but still better than factory. Would increasing the spring rate help "cure" the bouncing problem or is it just a mixture of vehicle weight and the suspension components? I have my rears set 10 out of 16 QA1 settings and the fronts QA1s are 12/16. At around 60mph it's livable but anything above that and it becomes quite a mess. I have Stinkers 1/2 kit and it looks awesome and handles better, just wondering what I can do to help the "bounce".

 

[FerrariTruck]

"Kind of" on topic but what causes the trucks to bounce, mine is still not satisfactory by any means but still better than factory. Would increasing the spring rate help "cure" the bouncing problem or is it just a mixture of vehicle weight and the suspension components? I have my rears set 10 out of 16 QA1 settings and the fronts QA1s are 12/16. At around 60mph it's livable but anything above that and it becomes quite a mess. I have Stinkers 1/2 kit and it looks awesome and handles better, just wondering what I can do to help the "bounce".

Essentially the spring rate, numer of coils, height of spring.

I'll be honest, I never really had interest in a car that handles good in the twisties since I got a motorcycle so i'm afraid I cant comment there mate or really suggest a solution for that.

In the vid I posted, the bouncing you see in my truck and even the supertanks run is the front suspension reacing its end of decompression of the spring. The springs didnt have enough stored energy ( which is the number coils that are compressed) to keep the front end rising

 

[Carlwalski]

Essentially the spring rate, numer of coils, height of spring.

I'll be honest, I never really had interest in a car that handles good in the twisties since I got a motorcycle so i'm afraid I cant comment there mate or really suggest a solution for that.

In the vid I posted, the bouncing you see in my truck and even the supertanks run is the front suspension reacing its end of decompression of the spring. The springs didn't have enough stored energy ( which is the number coils that are compressed) to keep the front end rising

Thanks and I should point out, this isn't in any twisties, it's actually not bad in turns but I to am not too worried about that stuff - with this truck. This is just cruising down the highway straights/slight bends etc at cruising speeds (0-70mph) and higher or sometimes at those speeds you hit a bump/hump or decent dip in the road and it'll wander quite quick on you, not fun and not ideal for a performance truck. Wonder if I should look at changing the springs, seems to be front only from what I can tell. I have 10% stiffer springs than OEM now. Would 20% be overkill? :dontknow: Would be a good time to also address the trucks annoying lean. :argh:

 

[FerrariTruck]

Thanks and I should point out, this isn't in any twisties, it's actually not bad in turns but I to am not too worried about that stuff - with this truck. This is just cruising down the highway straights/slight bends etc at cruising speeds (0-70mph) and higher or sometimes at those speeds you hit a bump/hump or decent dip in the road and it'll wander quite quick on you, not fun and not ideal for a performance truck. Wonder if I should look at changing the springs, seems to be front only from what I can tell. I have 10% stiffer springs than OEM now. Would 20% be overkill? :dontknow: Would be a good time to also address the trucks annoying lean. :argh:

Well the wandering you are feeling is the bad bumpsteer the trucks have due to the angle of the tie rods. When you lower the trucks it the angle increases and it gets worse. A long time ago a vendor tried to develop a solution using different type of tie rod ends and bolting to them to the other side of the spindle. This gave a better angle that worked but yeah thats kind of where in ended. He did sell some but also had quality and fitment issues,

As far as the lean, Its normal to have some variations. what you need to do to find where the promblem is first measure the distance between the lower control arm and bumpstop and compare it to the other side. you can do the same for the rear and you will identify if the issue lies in the susp or mounting of the body.


If you desire a stiffer spring, you can cut maybe 1/8 or 1/4 coil out of it.

 

[blackviper]

Your QA1's seem a bit to tight on the rear. I have my set at 7.

What about front shocks that we could adjust the compression and rebound separately? With this, we could set the rebound completely loose and the compression as tight as we'd like. Justin can get the QA1's with this setup.

 

[FerrariTruck]

Ok I have got a quote so far on some custom springs for our app.

I will be shipping them my old stock springs just for comparison after he produces one. He will be able to still give us a 1" drop .

I will be biting the bullet and trying these out withing the next month.
I also found a front skinny wheel set up that will give me a 40lb wheel :rock:

more on that later though

 

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

ferrari on the phone at the moment , will hollar in a bit,

but talked with travis, and he said the exact same, go with a progressive front spring to lift the front of the truck up..

but also ditch the qa1's and go with rancho adjsutable shocks

 

[FerrariTruck]

and just to give ya an idea of what these are designed to do here is a vid


3600lbs

505ci
5kstall
4.10gears
all cast iron motor
fiberglass bumper+hood
battery inthe trunk
did i mention all motor?

after he did the springs he has no promblem pulling the front end up high in the air. All i'm hoping is for it to keep us from breaking loose or at least let us extend the susp all the way out

enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYxUvGZpdcI

and this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9Jt56nUd0g

 

[FerrariTruck]

ferrari on the phone at the moment , will hollar in a bit,

but talked with travis, and he said the exact same, go with a progressive front spring to lift the front of the truck up..

but also ditch the qa1's and go with rancho adjsutable shocks

yup no promblem boss, qa1's are good for the rear but any 90/10 shock in front will do the trick.

I was looking at double adj qa1 on summit and they are like 260 eash

 

[FerrariTruck]

Also if ya have the front end weight of your truck avail, plz post it and what you done in the front to reduce weight