Illinois Pastor shot to death in the pulpit:

No argument Tim.

My point is that we have experienced a lot of situations in which those in power abuse the positions they have.

I would carry your concept of not deserving to die...to those who enter your garage or vehicle to steal...while I detest thieves, I don't think their activities warrant being killed...but this site is replete with people saying they will take such action...but that is me, and each person needs to understand their own lines...in advance of those situations.
 
Prof said:
No argument Tim.

My point is that we have experienced a lot of situations in which those in power abuse the positions they have.

I would carry your concept of not deserving to die...to those who enter your garage or vehicle to steal...while I detest thieves, I don't think their activities warrant being killed...but this site is replete with people saying they will take such action...but that is me, and each person needs to understand their own lines...in advance of those situations.
Click to expand...

Crimes of passion aside.... I don't think I could shoot and kill a MFr just for trying to steal a car out'a my garage.... unless (of course) he had a gun in my face.

D
 
Exactly.

But the number of people who seem disposed to "blowing someone away for treading on my turf..." is just amazing and I think more boisterous chest beating (sorry Silverback, nothing personal in that phrase) than actual strategy...I hope.
 
Prof said:
Exactly.

But the number of people who seem disposed to "blowing someone away for treading on my turf..." is just amazing and I think more boisterous chest beating (sorry Silverback, nothing personal in that phrase) than actual strategy...I hope.
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At my age, there are very few circumstances (wherein my heart) would allow me to terminate another human being..... Do those circumstances present themselves in this society? Yes. But one should only terminate another life with sobriety and under extreme need to preserve or protect another life.

This "turf shit" is (pardon my bluntness) is a bit too cave-manish for me.

But as I said, MFr is inside my house with a weapon and... Sorry, but "it's on".........

D
 
Prof said:
Its hard to argue with the imminent threat issue.
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The amusing tactical issue that would arise with this "in church" scenario... at least in my mind....:

If I saw a guy coming down the aisle shooting at the pastor (besides the overwhelming consideration that the assailant may be the "hand of God") I'd be worried about shooting at him from the congregation for fear of a ricochet or "through and through" wounding one of the parishioners (congregation). I fear that I'd lose some valuable seconds by having to get into the center aisle before opening up on the MFr.

Any tactical experts have input on that....?

D
 
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Put him on the ground...bury the barrel between his lips...and squeeze...the round will be recoverable from the floor...and the sound will be muffled by his cheeks and tongue.

Sorry, my prior life is oozing out...
 
Prof said:
Put him on the ground...bury the barrel between his lips...and squeeze...the round will be recoverable from the floor...and the sound will be muffled by his cheeks and tongue.

Sorry, my prior life is oozing out...
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I was thinking more of a scenario where I can't get my hands on him.... Sort of a "saw him pass out of the corner of my eye moving down the aisle" kind'a thing.


D
 
I think in your hypothetical you have to have a bias to act...you have to move aggressively to get as close as possible to minimize risk of collateral causalities, but be prepared to take a long shot if he responds to your action with a threatening action.

Every time I sit in an airplane I resolve to act immediately if there is an attempt to hijack the plane. At the moment the threat is manifested, you have the best chance to abort the attempt...it takes immediate and violent action...but at that point the nerves of the perpetrator are most ragged and in my mind the chances of success are best. Also fear has not yet paralyzed others. My action hopefully will urge others to act in the same manner.
 
Django said:
The amuseing tactical issue that would arise with this "in church" scenario... at least in my mind....:

If I saw a guy coming down the aisle shooting at the pastor (besides the overwhelming consideration that the assailant may be the "hand of God") I'd be worried about shooting at him from the congregation for fear of a ricochet or "through and through" wounding one of the parishioners (congregation). I fear that I'd lose some valuable seconds by having to get into the center aisle before opening up on the MFr.

Any tactical experts have input on that....?

D
Click to expand...


Up to about 1995,there was only one documented case of a round penetrating a suspect and then striking another person.

The overwhelming problem was police missing the intended target completely
and striking an unintended target.

When you consider the above and the fact that most handgun rounds would expend the majority of their energy in the first target anyway, it makes the through and through debate a non issue.

The above is why I placed the most emphasis on marksmanship when I was training cops.

I feel good too because my guys are batting 1000 so far.

The best one is one of my guys put a round through the bad guys head as my guy was falling backward.

Bottom line is, the better you are at using your equipment, the better chance you will have at a successful outcome.


.
 
Prof said:
I think in your hypothetical you have to have a bias to act...you have to move aggressively to get as close as possible to minimize risk of collateral causalities, but be prepared to take a long shot if he responds to your action with a threatening action.

Every time I sit in an airplane I resolve to act immediately if there is an attempt to hijack the plane. At the moment the threat is manifested, you have the best chance to abort the attempt...it takes immediate and violent action...but at that point the nerves of the perpetrator are most ragged and in my mind the chances of success are best. Also fear has not yet paralyzed others. My action hopefully will urge others to act in the same manner.
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Roy, looks like you are reading right out of one of my lesson plans on counter terrorist training.:rock: :p


.
 
I was the test dummy at the JFK Center for Special Warfare in the '60's.

We developed the early tactics for the initial Delta Force, and I pleaded for some socialistic philosophy in the manuals, but was voted down!

I was also laughed at when I recommended we include a woman on every Special Forces A Team. In most areas of operation we spent most of our time teaching internal defense and development (force structure training) and due to prevailing morays were not allowed to teach the women...so 50% of our available resources were not trained...I still think it would have been a great addition to every A Team or at least a contingent at the B Team level...I think many are still laughing at me. But hell people laugh at me here too!
 
Prof said:
I was the test dummy at the JFK Center for Special Warfare in the '60's.

We developed the early tactics for the initial Delta Force, and I pleaded for some socialistic philosophy in the manuals, but was voted down!

I was also laughed at when I recommended we include a woman on every Special Forces A Team. In most areas of operation we spent most of our time teaching internal defense and development (force structure training) and due to prevailing morays were not allowed to teach the women...so 50% of our available resources were not trained...I still think it would have been a great addition to every A Team or at least a contingent at the B Team level...I think many are still laughing at me. But hell people laugh at me here too!
Click to expand...

Well.... :eek: now you know. LOL! :eek:
 
Opps...I may have slipped and revealed some classified info...never mind, I'm just a cantankerous old fart that no one listens to any way.
 
Black1 said:
You have no idea where Roy has been.... He wrote "books" too.... :D ;)
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Wrong my man, I know alot more about him than you realize. Being assigned as an fugitive investigator with the feds for several years has it's advantages if you want information;) .


.
 
Prof said:
Opps...I may have slipped and revealed some classified info...never mind, I'm just a cantankerous old fart that no one listens to any way.
Click to expand...



I listen to every word.;)
 
supercar1of1 said:

Wrong my man, I know alot more about him than you realize. Being assigned as an fugitive investigator with the feds for several years has it's advantages if you want information;) .


.
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I am no longer a fugitive!

I gave up and said I would come in...but they said I talked too much about leftist issues and they didn't want to see me!
 
Prof said:
I am no longer a fugitive!

I gave up and said I would come in...but they said I talked too much about leftist issues and they didn't want to see me!
Click to expand...

LMAO.... :D I was going to try and fire a few volleys in his general direction... :eek: ;) But, you disarmed me, as usual.... :( :D :D :D :p
 
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