Kiwi SRT10 Ram With Hydrogen Kit?

[Carlwalski]

Huh? I was unsure of what a hydrogen kit did until I read his description in his first post/comment towards the bottom of the auction. I did a search here, a few looked at it but it was too hard or not worth it, etc. Then this little island I live on produces a guy apparently making/selling kits?!?! LOL Is it worth it? I have no idea if it works but wanted to see what you guys thought. I've asked him a question about where he got it etc. Will keep you posted.


http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=275046543&permanent=0

 

[redice2]

by the description it doesn't really say but it is probably just running a small substitution of hydrogen dumped into the intake which if you get the plans you can do yourself have a friend at work who has made one for his car and gets an increase of about 5mpg not that difficult just not sure i am willing to test it on my 10. have debated building one for the wife's avalanche though.

 

[scoobert]

if its two wires going to a jar, its worthless.
if its a tank in the back you have to fill, its great.

 

[scoobert]

by the description it doesn't really say but it is probably just running a small substitution of hydrogen dumped into the intake which if you get the plans you can do yourself have a friend at work who has made one for his car and gets an increase of about 5mpg not that difficult just not sure i am willing to test it on my 10. have debated building one for the wife's avalanche though.

tank H2?

 

[ZCx]

thats been brought up here before.

i have seen one on an older Ford Ranger, made from instructions off the net. the old man swore it was worth 3 mpg in the city & 5 on the highway

 

[Carlwalski]

Hmmm, sounds interesting. I wonder what if any damage can be caused to the engine, especially long term?
I'm doubting he did this himself or by a shop, as I said, he mentioned it has a "Hydrogen Kit".

 

[scoobert]

i would assume he means this:

this is worthless bullshit.
http://www.hydrogen-fuel.ca/
http://www.runyourcaronwater.com/hydrogen-fuel-kits.html

 

[Carlwalski]

I could have assumed that too lol.........I will wait to see what he says, at least I now know he's no John Briton, Burt Monroe or Scott Dixon lol as there are no kits specifically designed for our trucks that WE know about. If there was a kit available for our trucks, this forum would know about it. You'd think.

 

[redice2]

friends setup is like 8 canisters and feeds into his intake. i havent done much with it but have seen enough proof that it is producting hydrogen even if small quantity.

 

[scoobert]

those systems would have to exceed 100% efficiency, therefore they do not work, EVER, and anyone who thinks they do is more stupid then my friends dog when i yell squirrel and he goes running to the window.
it goes ageist the first law of thermodynamics.

 

[redice2]

well considering i have seen a flame off the end of the pipe that can sustain that means you are gaining a flamable gas. and you have proven yourself to be an idiot more times than just about anyone on here scoobert. now as far as efficiency i am not talking efficiency it is simply replacing a small part of fuel not 100% to gain a couple mpg not replacing fuel all togther.

 

[Carlwalski]

by the description it doesn't really say but it is probably just running a small substitution of hydrogen dumped into the intake which if you get the plans you can do yourself have a friend at work who has made one for his car and gets an increase of about 5mpg not that difficult just not sure i am willing to test it on my 10. have debated building one for the wife's avalanche though.

The 5mpg your friend claims is very worth it, from 15mpg to a 20mpg vehicle in the sports truck market is major.
Maybe you and your friend can design a kit for our trucks and make some decent coin off them eh!

 

[redice2]

yeah he likes it i just dont know i would be willing to test on a 10. like i said i have considered doing the setup for my wife's avalanche to test for myself cost him like 200 dollars in parts total.

 

[scoobert]

well considering i have seen a flame off the end of the pipe that can sustain that means you are gaining a flamable gas. and you have proven yourself to be an idiot more times than just about anyone on here scoobert. now as far as efficiency i am not talking efficiency it is simply replacing a small part of fuel not 100% to gain a couple mpg not replacing fuel all togther.

sorry. but this time i am correct. it can produce hydrogen, of course, and oxygen too. but it uses energy from the alternator to do it. and in turn it gets power from the fuel. the amount of fuel and btu's being burned to create it far surpasses the amount of hydrogen btu's it can produce, and in effect reduces your MPG not increases it.

though i have the social talents of a raciest walrus in detroit,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuVDhLbvS4g
there are things i have intensely studied, thermodynamics is one.

 

[redice2]

oh yes and a vehicle uses 100% of the energy it generates from the altinator if you beleave that you are an idiot but you have proved that many times over. so not arguing with you at this point beleave what you want i have seen it work so.

 

[Ram From Hell]

I actually have a kit that I never installed. I even picked up a very nice pulse width power modulator (no bullshit, this is a real electronic component), to maximize HO production with the least power consumption.

It all works, in theory.

Yes, the electrolysis systems produce HO gas.

Yes, HO gas burns.

The question really is whether or not if produces enough gas to make a difference.

Most (if not all) of these kits include something to modify the O2 sensor signal (either electronically, or physically). If the principle gains people are seeing is just through leaning out the engine, then it's a wast of time and money. If the engine is producing the same (or more) power at about the same AFR, then it works.

A member on hear (Stinker?) put a kit on a beater Datsun or Toyota. His results were positive and repeatable. Again, what the gain was from is what's at the heart of determining whether or not the system is worthwhile.

 

[scoobert]

oh yes and a vehicle uses 100% of the energy it generates from the altinator if you beleave that you are an idiot but you have proved that many times over. so not arguing with you at this point beleave what you want i have seen it work so.

i will tell you what, PM prof, and ask him to explain the first law of thermodynamics. he is a teacher, and i am not. if you think you have found an answer to perpetual motion perhaps you should be teaching thermodynamics.
here are two wikis to get you started, i really would hate to see you waste 200 bucks on garbage, you would be best off buying a nice trinket for your truck.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_law_of_thermodynamics

The increase in the internal energy of a system is equal to the amount of energy added by heating the system minus the amount lost as a result of the work done by the system on its surroundings.

 

[WOT]

The biggest kit from scoobert's post makes 50 liters of hydrogen/oxygen mix per hour. Since it is separating hydrogen an oxygen from water, then it is exactly at the right percentages to be recombined during combustion. Since our motors are 8.3 liters, it would take around 24 complete revolutions (12 full cycles, 2 strokes per revolution, 4 stroke motor) at full throttle to use up an hour's worth (50 liters) of production from the kit.

So, at 6000 rpm at full throttle it would used up the full hour's production in less than 1/4 of a second.

So, lets say you just want to supplement by mainly burning gasoline/air and supplementing with hydrogen/oxygen at 10%. And, let's say that you only care about cruising speeds, steady state on the highway.

At 15 mpg at 60 mile per hour, our trucks are burning 4 gallons/hour. At 14.7:1 air fuel ratio by mass, and air at standard temp/press at .01lb/gallon, the truck is consuming 36550 gallons of air per hour plus the 4 gallons of fuel for 36554 gallons of vaporized air fuel mixture. So at 10% supplementation, it would need to produce 3655.4 gallons/hour, times 3.78 liters/gal or 13817 liters/hour.

Since the largest unit produces 50 liters/hour, you would need around 276 of them for 10% supplementation. At 20 amps draw each, that would equal 5520 Amps. At 13V, it would take 717600 watts or about 96 hp to power it (at 100% efficiency). So, you would need around 40 additional alternators and they would draw around 137hp (at 70% alternator efficiency) off the front of the motor.

All of this for only 10% supplementation at steady state highway cruising. Seems like a huge net loss to me....

 

[Carlwalski]

I actually have a kit that I never installed. I even picked up a very nice pulse width power modulator (no bullshit, this is a real electronic component), to maximize HO production with the least power consumption.

It all works, in theory.

Yes, the electrolysis systems produce HO gas.

Yes, HO gas burns.

The question really is whether or not if produces enough gas to make a difference.

Most (if not all) of these kits include something to modify the O2 sensor signal (either electronically, or physically). If the principle gains people are seeing is just through leaning out the engine, then it's a wast of time and money. If the engine is producing the same (or more) power at about the same AFR, then it works.

A member on hear (Stinker?) put a kit on a beater Datsun or Toyota. His results were positive and repeatable. Again, what the gain was from is what's at the heart of determining whether or not the system is worthwhile.

Thanks mate, after reading everything it basically seems like a waste of time IMO LMAO. :laugh: While it may work for the hassle, it may not too. I can definitely see why no one has spent a lot of time and money looking into something. Better off spending the money on something else, like towards new rear tires. :burnout:


Thanks everyone.

 

[scoobert]

The biggest kit from scoobert's post makes 50 liters of hydrogen/oxygen mix per hour. Since it is separating hydrogen an oxygen from water, than it is exactly at the right percentages to be recombined during combustion. Since our motors are 8.3 liters, it would take around 24 complete revolutions (12 full cycles, 2 strokes per revolution, 4 stroke motor) at full throttle to use up an hour's worth (50 liters) of production from the kit.

So, at 6000 rpm at full throttle it would used up the full hour's production in less than 1/4 of a second.

So, lets say you just want to supplement by mainly burning gasoline/air and supplement hydrogen/oxygen at 10%. And, let's say that you only care about cruising speeds, steady state on the highway.

At 15 mpg at 60 mile per hour, our trucks are burning 4 gallons/hour. At 14.7:1 air fuel ratio by mass, and air at .01lb/gallon, the truck is consuming 5880 gallons of standard temp/press air per hour plus the 4 gallons of fuel for 5884 gallons of vaporized air fuel mixture. So at 10% supplementation, it would need to produce 588.4 gallons/hour, times 3.78 liters/gal or 2224 liters/hour.

All of this for 10% supplementation at steady state, part throttle, highway cruising.

Since the largest unit produces 50 liters/hour, you would need around 44 of them for 10% supplementation. At 20 amps draw each, that would equal 880 Amps. At 13V, it would take 11440 watts or about 15 hp to power it (at 100% efficiency). So, you would need around 8 additional alternators and they would draw around 22hp (at 70% alternator efficiency) off the front of the motor.

All of this for only 10% supplementation at steady state highway cruising. Seems like a huge net loss to me....

how much HP does the truck need to sustain 60mph?