Lost jaja

[MARCOS909]

that was me lol

Lol I was In a Black SRT-10 Q.C

 

[VENOMOUS1 RACING]

You actually lose a little hp when using higher octane. Fuel is made of two equations....NH heptane/isooctane The octane in fuel is a resistor to knock and ping (uneven or early detonation of fuel). The higher the octane the higher resistant to burn. In other words...takes more heat and compression to burn efficiently. Reason we use it is higher compression and forced induction applications is the additional heat created (also during higher advanced timing). Racers typically try to use the lowest octane they can while remaining safe

Bottom line...with higher octane....you give up alittle hp to gain alittle insurance. Sorry for the thread hijack....I used to work in Fuels lab while in the Air Force.

Great info for sure bro! Good to have your knowledge on board. We do bump compression in our engines and have since the days of ole for more HP, but with this usally came one of two things. Retard the timing to prevent knock, or use the 100 octane and be able to run normal or a tad advanced timing. Obviously many other factors are to be considered as well and have changed since those days ( not so much with the viper engine ) such as combustion chamber design, ignition systems, and fuel blends (ethanol) as well as fuel injection and precise airflow metering/injector timing that can be tailored to suit different applications from FI to hard core high compression NA engines. Yes the average guy can get away with 93 octane fuel and an aggresive timing map, yet throw in some domed pistons, shave your heads, add a cam with specs that actually increase dynamic compression ratio and BAM you have a recipe for an engine that will require the higher octane unleaded fuel to resist detonation just to be able to have some timing that the engine reponds well to without to much retardation. Same goes for FI or Nitrous applications IMO. The START of knock in a N2O or FI engine is way to late to save in a fast manner (especially in engines minus knock detection retardation) and can eat ring lands and pistons quickly. The higher octane fuel like you said is insurance against premature detonation. Better combusion chamber design will increase resistance to knock in higher compression engines as well as lower compresssion engines that can run more timing and benefit from the extra power from that additional timing without knock. I never like to rely on the knock sensor for retarding timing either as it takes time ( albeit only fractions of a second) for the sensor to react to the pretuned frequency it's set to respond to, and in turn retard the timing and during that fraction of a second your main bearings, piston rings, piston ring lands are all being harmonically and thermally distorted.

Now I don't personally use Race Gas in my truck but when I cam her and shave heads/thinner head gaskets, and go for a serious 11:1 compression or more Viper engine , she'll drink a mixutre of 100/93:burnout:

 

[NSDQ]

(especially in engines minus knock detection retardation)

It's funny you mention this. In my ProCharged SVT Focus, I had a knock retardation control module. There's a guy who hand builds them to order. You can adjust the sensitivity of it, much like adjusting the gain on a stereo amp, and if it detects knock, it retards your timing to help prevent detonation and it retards individual cylinders, not the whole engine (unless every cylinder is knocking). It even came with an optional LED gauge that can mount in a standard gauge pod that will light up when knock is starting to be detected. I emailed him a few months ago and asked if he could build one for the Viper engine, he said he can but would be tricky, but do-able. I posted about it in the performance section, but no one showed any interest. Very surprising given the number of blown engines some of our trucks have sustained. This module will work on stock engines or any kind of setup and is cheap insurance compared to blowing your engine. It's very small, I had mine mounted in my glove box. Scott, if enough interest could be generated, maybe this is something that you could look into having him build us a few. The shop I got mine from on my car usually kept like 2 or 3 in stock at a time because he has to hand build them for each application and engine size. A pre-order or group buy or something. PM me if interested and I'll get you his contact information.

http://www.vtcoa.com/forums/f8/j-s-safeguard-54056/

"Jason:


Is your engine similar to the Dodge Viper?


That's five channel waste spark, but it's odd fire.


I would have to modify the software to work with odd fire.


An even fire ten cylinder would fire every 72°. The Viper fires 54°, 90°, 54°, 90°, etc.


The Vampire uses a knock listening window. It starts listening 24° after the trigger pulse, then listens for 45°. You can see that half the time a new trigger would arrive before the knock processing is complete.


It's doable, but it would be tricky.


JohnP"

 

[VENOMOUS1 RACING]

It's funny you mention this. In my ProCharged SVT Focus, I had a knock retardation control module. There's a guy who hand builds them to order. You can adjust the sensitivity of it, much like adjusting the gain on a stereo amp, and if it detects knock, it retards your timing to help prevent detonation and it retards individual cylinders, not the whole engine (unless every cylinder is knocking). It even came with an optional LED gauge that can mount in a standard gauge pod that will light up when knock is starting to be detected. I emailed him a few months ago and asked if he could build one for the Viper engine, he said he can but would be tricky, but do-able. I posted about it in the performance section, but no one showed any interest. Very surprising given the number of blown engines some of our trucks have sustained. This module will work on stock engines or any kind of setup and is cheap insurance compared to blowing your engine. It's very small, I had mine mounted in my glove box. Scott, if enough interest could be generated, maybe this is something that you could look into having him build us a few. The shop I got mine from on my car usually kept like 2 or 3 in stock at a time because he has to hand build them for each application and engine size. A pre-order or group buy or something. PM me if interested and I'll get you his contact information.

http://www.vtcoa.com/forums/f8/j-s-safeguard-54056/

"Jason:


Is your engine similar to the Dodge Viper?


That's five channel waste spark, but it's odd fire.


I would have to modify the software to work with odd fire.


An even fire ten cylinder would fire every 72°. The Viper fires 54°, 90°, 54°, 90°, etc.


The Vampire uses a knock listening window. It starts listening 24° after the trigger pulse, then listens for 45°. You can see that half the time a new trigger would arrive before the knock processing is complete.


It's doable, but it would be tricky.


JohnP"

I do understand his product and it makes sense especially for the 04' that has no sensor. Would be interesting to see what he can do and he does understand our engine firing which is very important. You can make it with parts from an electical store and radio shack but knowing how to make it and make it work are the key he seems to know. Good stuff:rock:

 

[AdrianCaF91]

Lol I was In a Black SRT-10 Q.C

what streets did u see me? i think i saw u too

 

[AdrianCaF91]

You actually lose a little hp when using higher octane. Fuel is made of two equations....NH heptane/isooctane The octane in fuel is a resistor to knock and ping (uneven or early detonation of fuel). The higher the octane the higher resistant to burn. In other words...takes more heat and compression to burn efficiently. Reason we use it is higher compression and forced induction applications is the additional heat created (also during higher advanced timing). Racers typically try to use the lowest octane they can while remaining safe

Bottom line...with higher octane....you give up alittle hp to gain alittle insurance. Sorry for the thread hijack....I used to work in Fuels lab while in the Air Force.

well it was a lightning ...supercharged with the timing messed with forsure

 

[NSDQ]

I do understand his product and it makes sense especially for the 04' that has no sensor. Would be interesting to see what he can do and he does understand our engine firing which is very important. You can make it with parts from an electical store and radio shack but knowing how to make it and make it work are the key he seems to know. Good stuff:rock:

Yeah definitely. The one for my car was $475. The other thing with this unit that is very important is you can have the safest best tune that ever existed, but you can't prevent going to the gas station and filling up with a bad tank of gas that causes detonation and blows your engine. God forbid that happen, esp for the guys with blowers, and dominoe effect happens and boom goes your engine. I personally noticed with my car that every so often after filling up that it would retard timing. I usually always tried to fill up at the same station, but every so often I'd have to go somewhere else and it wasn't always the best tank of gas. I just think this is something guys could use that would really help. If you've already dished out 10k or more for a FI setup, why not $500 more for something that will save that 10k build?

 

[gatorowned]

Great info for sure bro! Good to have your knowledge on board. We do bump compression in our engines and have since the days of ole for more HP, but with this usally came one of two things. Retard the timing to prevent knock, or use the 100 octane and be able to run normal or a tad advanced timing. Obviously many other factors are to be considered as well and have changed since those days ( not so much with the viper engine ) such as combustion chamber design, ignition systems, and fuel blends (ethanol) as well as fuel injection and precise airflow metering/injector timing that can be tailored to suit different applications from FI to hard core high compression NA engines. Yes the average guy can get away with 93 octane fuel and an aggresive timing map, yet throw in some domed pistons, shave your heads, add a cam with specs that actually increase dynamic compression ratio and BAM you have a recipe for an engine that will require the higher octane unleaded fuel to resist detonation just to be able to have some timing that the engine reponds well to without to much retardation. Same goes for FI or Nitrous applications IMO. The START of knock in a N2O or FI engine is way to late to save in a fast manner (especially in engines minus knock detection retardation) and can eat ring lands and pistons quickly. The higher octane fuel like you said is insurance against premature detonation. Better combusion chamber design will increase resistance to knock in higher compression engines as well as lower compresssion engines that can run more timing and benefit from the extra power from that additional timing without knock. I never like to rely on the knock sensor for retarding timing either as it takes time ( albeit only fractions of a second) for the sensor to react to the pretuned frequency it's set to respond to, and in turn retard the timing and during that fraction of a second your main bearings, piston rings, piston ring lands are all being harmonically and thermally distorted.

Now I don't personally use Race Gas in my truck but when I cam her and shave heads/thinner head gaskets, and go for a serious 11:1 compression or more Viper engine , she'll drink a mixutre of 100/93:burnout:

Very nice write-up. :rock: