Poll concerning our PISTONS!

[SANCHOBA]

just lovely....value of the trucks just dropped some more,wondering if i should unload mine NOW! (damn ,i knew i should have bought that extended warranty)

 

[eddie102870]

sweet, prof i seriously doubt we will get anywhere with this. i know a few lawyers down here in tort hell too that maybe interested in chasing this. i think ill start saving for rods and pistons now though just in case. its a shame these vehicles are advertised and sold as performance vehicles with glass internals so as to sace a few pennies. anyone who knows anything about performance vehicles knows forged internals is the way to go. especially with the price tag a lot of us paid when we bought these trucks new.

 

[Prof]

I have my doubts too Eddie. But I would love to be wrong.

Hey, maybe at $10 per member here...and some Viper owners at the same level...we can interest someone to take the case...who knows...

At a minimum, a lawyer of the stature of Mortle...one who has beaten them before, we will get some attention.

 

[Demon 8]

We need Erin Brockovich SP.
Well now more than ever I think I will be happy to buy stock and make forged internals the first mod.

 

[HaulinAsp]

HaulinAsp's engine was far from stock, so don't try to use him as an example.

:dontknow: So I guess the MOPAR Headers and the Catback Magnaflow and a Cold Air Intake are extreme mods that will push the engine over the edge Or was it the driving around on a 94 octane tune from KRC..... This adds up to 480 maybe hp......

 

[Prof]

I think the issue is the warranty...if you read it, it just eliminates any chance of getting compensation...if the Corporation doesn't want to help. Hell change to the transmission fluid recommended by the people who manufacture the transmission and you are in violation of the warranty...

Lawyers write the documents for the people who pay them. That's what you would do if you were the manufacturer. Nuff said.

 

[SRTINCT]

Like it was said, you play you pay. Do we even know the extent of the problem on stock motors and I mean stock.....no exhaust, intake, PCM, induction mods. I don't get the impression that stock motors are failing left and right. How many 10's were manufactured and how many have had piston failures? If 10,000 were produced over a 3yr period at 1% failure rate that would equal 100 trucks. I don't think we're seeing this type of failure documented in the forum. Would a 1% failure rate be cause for class action status? Or is it acceptable in an automotive mass production environment? :dontknow:

I'm sure Dodge has this data and will take it out in a second to supress any class action attempt. The most one may get out of Dodge if it is proven to be a design flaw or poor parts choice would be sometype of extended warranty coverage on the identified part. Dodge's exposure would only be to stock engines which fail due to the identified issue. Thinking that Dodge is going to put forged internals into our engines or compensate 10's buyers as a whole is a crackpipe dream.

 

[FastRam]

I support this concept but I doubt Dodge would do anything. They built the product to meet a specified performance requirement while subjected to certain duty cycles and durations with goals, e.g. provide maximum performance while meeting an emmissions requirement. The missing link is: what exactly is this specifrication? :dontknow: Another question that needs to be answered is: Define and specify an acceptable performance improvement metric for durability? Simply stating "build it to an acceptable level" is ambiguous. To what level or performance metric shall it be built to, for what duration, under what type of environmental or duty cycles, what's the end result?

IMO even with a completely stock setup, like mine, if I continually beat the crap out of it, it will eventually fail, even if I do all the correct and proper maintenance, which I do as well. The engine is a machine, it fail eventually if continually pushed beyond it's limits, abused, etc. When I attended the Summit Point TE, a question was asked to one of the instructors "have any cars been damaged or wrecked during the TE's". The answer given was yes and the instructor cited an incident that happened last year (track name not given). One of the instructors was warming up a 2006 Viper for the hot lap sessions. While doing this, the engine decided to go kaput -- blown. The instructors at our TE didn't get into specifics (speed, loading, damages, etc.) but they made the comment "well, I guess it was it's time to go". And yes, those Vipers get the $hit pounded out of them by the instructors and us "students" who can't seem to hit the brake pedal without hitting the gas pedal at the same time and over-revving the engine until the rev-limiter begs for mercy.

 

[Venom Power]

I've read all of the posts to this thread before deciding what my vote would be. Initially I was all for it thinking, "HELL YES, LET'S GO FOR IT!!" However, a corporation such as Chrysler isn't going to pump extra money to build something they can get away with building cheaper or using inferior parts. The extra $300.00 a truck/coupe will add up really quick to a hefty sum considering how many GenX motors were produced. That money would be better spent paying attorneys to write up warranty policies complete with the elusive fine print. Then, they can still get away with advertising high performance vehicles when critical parts are failing. Their engineers developed a machine that can do "this" under normal driving conditions but we are seeing that the same machine that can only do "that." What they define as racing can differ to what we define as racing. I already know my definition of racing doesn't come close to some of the members here.. I'm a wuss (possibly over cautious) and admit it. They get away with saying, "Yes, capable of 500 HP", while it's really like a low to mid 4 something at the wheels (Ford advertised 5.0L for many years when it was more like 4.6L)... Like we’re supposed to KNOW HP is lost through the drive train. Who in the heck thinks of that detail when signing to purchase one? They already know people will buy them because of the sheer awesomeness (wait till the complaints start rolling in about the Challenger).. And even if Chrysler were to submit (highly doubtful) and consider offering forged pistons for SRT owners that are besides themselves with grief, it would only be for those that have the likes of, saaay, Wifey's un-raped, unblemished, low mileage truck. My simple meager mods would still exclude me from eligibility even with the fact I ALWAYS keep her under 5200RPMs (Hell, 3500 to 4k RPMs and I am already nervous). So the rest of the members with blown motors, NoS, turbos, altered gears, regular track visits, green ethylene glycol, excessive Armor All, etc. can just forget it.

I have to say this will be seen as an attempt to get something from Chrysler for nothing. I don’t knock that notion because we all spent our hard earned money to buy this product and deserve better from Chrysler. But like mentioned before, to entertain the thought of Chrysler agreeing to forged internals for SRT owners in whole OR IN PART this is a “crack-pipe dream,” or, “like pissing in the wind..” If we go for it, I suggest we each bring a towel to dry ourselves of urine. My vote? NO... I say we just huddle and cry... But that's only one voice in the crowd.

 

[Ronin]

Remember in the case I cited, it was one Viper, owned jointly by two guys. The settlement was almost $400K. No one got hurt, killed, maimed or injured, but the damages put the smack-down on Dodge for NOT doing the right thing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Gen I Viper motors come with a forged bottom end? Roe calls the Gen I motors "heavyweight" and Gen II motors "lightweight". That would put Dodge in a pretty poor position if they got called out on it in court, and the tap dancing would likely show it was a purely financial decision that was to the benefit of Dodge at the expense of the end user/consumer...

Hmmm....

 

[BurntRubber]

Remember in the case I cited, it was one Viper, owned jointly by two guys. The settlement was almost $400K. No one got hurt, killed, maimed or injured, but the damages put the smack-down on Dodge for NOT doing the right thing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Gen I Viper motors come with a forged bottom end? Roe calls the Gen I motors "heavyweight" and Gen II motors "lightweight". That would put Dodge in a pretty poor position if they got called out on it in court, and the tap dancing would likely show it was a purely financial decision that was to the benefit of Dodge at the expense of the end user/consumer...

Hmmm....

Things to keep in mind a genI engine is called "heavywieght becasue of the iron block...hence weighing more...GenII is aluminum...hence weighing less. nothing more nothing less...genII motors are the strongest.

 

[BurntRubber]

I am going to go against the grain and say you guys are pissing into the wind. Out of all the genIII engines SRT10 rams and vipers how many have had problems. There are a select few that have had problems with there engines that are close to stock form. how many GenIII motors are out there...maybe 13,000. Haulin asp also had used an additive to his engine, not that i think it should make a difference but it would in a lawsuit. Kyle & Roy blew up there engines with a Roe, other guys who were running paxton's. The engine is also working harder because it is pushing more weight than intended....that is where I see the fault. a viper is 3400 pounds, the trucks are alot more. kind of like what dodge did with the auto's in the QC's...they are dog crap, but thats all they had for the application. The Hyperteunic cast pistons in the 2000-2002 vipers are better than the ones in the genIII, a cheap alternative would be to use those if you are going to run low boost or a roe!
my 2 cents...:dontknow:

 

[Marc T]

I am going to go against the grain and say you guys are pissing into the wind. Out of all the genIII engines SRT10 rams and vipers how many have had problems. There are a select few that have had problems with there engines that are close to stock form. how many GenIII motors are out there...maybe 13,000. Haulin asp also had used an additive to his engine, not that i think it should make a difference but it would in a lawsuit. Kyle & Roy blew up there engines with a Roe, other guys who were running paxton's. The engine is also working harder because it is pushing more weight than intended....that is where I see the fault. a viper is 3400 pounds, the trucks are alot more. kind of like what dodge did with the auto's in the QC's...they are dog crap, but thats all they had for the application. The Hyperteunic cast pistons in the 2000-2002 vipers are better than the ones in the genIII, a cheap alternative would be to use those if you are going to run low boost or a roe!
my 2 cents...:dontknow:

Did Roys motor go boom?? This is the first I have heard of it? :dontknow:

I know he is re-building but I think it was just by choice??

 

[TREKER]

Did Roys motor go boom?? This is the first I have heard of it? :dontknow:

I know he is re-building but I think it was just by choice??

I think he was just going forged, Marc....

 

[Manic]

Roy is being proactive and is replacing his engine internals with forged pistons and other components.

Wil

 

[BurntRubber]

Did Roys motor go boom?? This is the first I have heard of it? :dontknow:

I know he is re-building but I think it was just by choice??

I thought he was getting quite a bit of blow by and losing compression. I know the build was preventitive, but it was weakening already

 

[Demon 8]

How much is forged internals going to run me. I spoke with Marty at Earls GTG and he said $3700. I am guessing that is parts...how much for the install and would Mickey be the guy for the job wink wink

 

[Prof]

I thought he was getting quite a bit of blow by and losing compression. I know the build was preventitive, but it was weakening already

Exactly.

All of the indications were present...the blow-by was excessive; the compression was dropping; Justin recommended a leak-down, and that was the right thing to do...several holes were very different (not #3 strangely).

When it was pulled down there was not a single piston that did not have some cracks in the upper land to the dome. I had planned to go forged but got delayed by 5 months by a builder...so I found another top guy to do the build. In my mind it would have thrown a chunk of piston in the near future.

It still ran great, had it on a dyno (Mustang) that was set to top out at 500 hp, and got there at 4200 rpm...so no real evidence of a problem, other than the blow-by.

Glad I acted when I did or I would be with Kyle and Haulinasp...with damaged blocks.

Should be up this weekend or next...just in time for winter here in Illinois!

 

[Prof]

How much is forged internals going to run me. I spoke with Marty at Earls GTG and he said $3700. I am guessing that is parts...how much for the install and would Mickey be the guy for the job wink wink

Well $3700 is an amazing number...I am not too careful with my wife's money, so take this for what it is worth...but my complete rebuild including labor will be about



















Take a deep breath.....






















$15,500.

Now go find a rich wife!

 

[FastSRT19]

My Raptor is set at 4,900 and i have the longest extended warranty i could get...Don't get me wrong, i drive my truck like it was intended, i just don't "drive it like i stole it." I love it too much to pound the crap out of it.:dontknow: